Just found out she already filed

[ImprovedRomeo]

I know...i know you guys are right I just get caught up in the moment.

CTH, lol you picked up on the "if you're not too busy". I purposely stuck that in there because of what she told me yesterday- that she was busy and didn't have time to check email [on her iphone].

So the princess decided to finally check her emails (but selectively respond to only the email from this morning):

"Hi,
I stopped by at 930 to drop off her giraffe and she was playing outside and very happy. I told her that I would pick her up early today and she let me leave after just a few minutes. She seemed much better!

Thanks"

So basically, she's telling me there's no problem and I may be a nutcase to even think that way- big surprise there!

Everyone, thanks so much for your input- it feels nice to know there are others that understand me and can offer me some good advice.

[ImprovedRomeo]

On the mediation thing. How prepared are you financially for this? I was ready to fight, fight, fight. Then I thought about how much money I could blow in an uphill fight and an uncertain outcome.

Now, I'm hoping to smooth it along since she'll owe me money. I'd rather not blow what I'm going to get on attorneys fees.

Well it's up to her. I already asked her to let's settle this out of court but apparently (9 days and no response) she doesn't want to. So if you corner me and leave me no way out I'll have to fight back!

[alice444]

'...she was playing outside and very happy. I told her that I would pick her up early today and she let me leave after just a few minutes. She seemed much better!"

So basically, she's telling me there's no problem and I may be a nutcase to even think that way- big surprise there!

SR- check that again- she said "she seemed much better," validating that you said she was upset earlier. She didn't say or imply you're crazy- Is it possible you're ready to read negative stuff into neutral things she says, maybe b/c in the past she's said negative things? My H is like that with me- I can say the most neutral thing and he takes it as criticism. I just mention it b/c there may be a reason for it from the past, but try to read/hear it for what it is, so you're less likely to be reactive about it-- It can only help communication between you guys-

I would contact her again re: mediation if I were you. You will end up paying much of the money you'll be "fighting for" to the L's if you go the traditional route. Remember D and how this will affect her- if you guys do this the nasty way, even if you don't think you're being nasty, your L's job is to make your W look bad and fight for everything he can and vice versa. I think that can end up causing much worse problems- if you guys need to continue to co-parent peacefully, I would "fight" to do collaborative or mediation, both to save money and preserve whatever positive relations you guys have. So call her if she hasn't responded to your email- or text her if she only does texts. I think this is really important--

A

[ImprovedRomeo]

A, I know what you mean and I did sound like I was taking it as a criticism. The problem however is that while she's validated me (sort of) by saying that she was much better she avoided the actual issue altogether. Just because a 6yo kid was happy at the very moment she walked in doesn't mean the kid isn't suffering from all this crap. I guess she won't see that or take any responsibility for it.

As for mediation, that would be my preference too but what am I supposed to do short of begging her? Calling her is going to be awkward because she doesn't want to talk about any of this. Remember she didn't even tell me that she filed for D. She hasn't still said a word to me about it yet she'll talk about the non-chalant stuff. Our communication has really gone into the toilet especially when it comes to these uncomfortable things.

I'm willing to do what you're saying I just don't know how and where to even start.

[ImprovedRomeo]

OK guys, I think the lunch break helped me as well as her checking on DD. I'm thinking of sending a quick response to her, something like:

"OK it makes me feel a lot better to hear that DD was doing better, thanks for checking on her.

Let me know your thoughts on the ATT bill as well as the email I sent last week. If you prefer we can discuss it in person or at least I'd prefer it that way. Just let me know."

[whatisis]

Let me know your thoughts on the ATT bill as well as the email I sent last week. If you prefer we can discuss it in person or at least I'd prefer it that way. Just let me know."

How about "...I would prefer that we discuss these matters in person, please let me know when would be a convenient time for you" Don't leave everything to what she would prefer. If you want something say YOU want it, let her be the bad guy by saying no or ignoring it. Try not to be too accommodating, my guess is that is part of what got you here in the first place (and I say that as the Accommodation King myself!). She won't appreciate it but will take it for granted and probably already has for years. We think by being nice, tolerant, overly flexible that it will be received and responded to with respect and appreciation. WRONG! It gives them the impression that they are still in the drivers seat and can do whatever they want. Just little changes in the way you relate to her can make a difference in the outcome of this whole thing. It's not a matter of either going dark or being ultra considerate. Am I in the ball park here or just swinging blindly?

[Gardener]

ant,

I know how you feel...but she's already convinced herself that what she's doing is just fine...and she's gonna continue to convince herself of that. NOTHING that you say or do will change her mind. She says and does things based on what she 'wants' them to be, instead of what they 'are'. WAS are the most selfish people on the planet. They are able to justify everything they do, regardless of how truly destructive it actually is.

Seems to be quite a few nuggets of wisdom re WASs here lately This ^^ was definitely one of hem.

[whatisis]

Absolute agreement here! My wife once said, when I stated that I thought her A was wrong, "so I don't have the right to be happy just because I took a vow?" She just didn't get it! Somehow they tend not to because it doesn't fit with what they want to do.

[ImprovedRomeo]

We think by being nice, tolerant, overly flexible that it will be received and responded to with respect and appreciation. WRONG! It gives them the impression that they are still in the drivers seat and can do whatever they want. Just little changes in the way you relate to her can make a difference in the outcome of this whole thing. It's not a matter of either going dark or being ultra considerate. Am I in the ball park here or just swinging blindly?

wii, I don't think you're swinging blindly at all. I'm sure that's been part of the problem. When I was young (and when we met) I exuded confidence, in fact, some people at work even thought that I was cocky then over time getting beat down in the real world and doing what I was told to do at work as well as keeping a wife happy at home I lost all of it and became fairly passive in the day to day life. Though I never realized that it was a problem. I thought I was being considerate and trying to find a 'balance'. Over the last couple of years when I realized it I tried to get back my old self but quite honestly I haven't been very successful. Instead of becoming assertive/confident I tend to overshoot and become passive aggressive or just plain angry instead. So I realized that and started watching my behavior which resulted in me just shutting down and not expressing my true feelings. I guess I sort of became like her who never could express her feelings, of course, on the outside she always acted as-if and I never knew there was a problem. But that's another topic.

I don't know if I'll ever find that 'sure of himself' confident yet likeable person again. I guess I don't know how.

If you want something say YOU want it, let her be the bad guy by saying no or ignoring it. Try not to be too accommodating,

I agree, that's good to remember. thanks.

my guess is that is part of what got you here in the first place (and I say that as the Accommodation King myself!). She won't appreciate it but will take it for granted and probably already has for years.

Certainly. She did take things for granted, she told me as a husband she felt it was my duty to do all those things. When you reverse the tables though I guess I shouldn't have expected anything as part of her duty towards me- including intimacy.

[OldFool]

Food:
Look in the bagged (not boxed) frozen food section. You'll find mixed vegetables suitable for adding to a main course. You can also find several different things that can be a meal-in-a-bag if you want (they generally include pasta or rice, chicken or seafood, and some mix of vegetables). Contessa, Birdseye, and others make similar, though slightly different, combos. Try some and keep the ones you and DD like. You can stock up when they're cheap and they stay good in the freezer. Just take it easy on the sauces they include. Most are heavy on the bad stuff, so just use a little bit to add some flavor (or use your own) if you're trying to eat healthy.

Getting Through To Her:
Give it up. Please. It's not doing her any good and it's not doing you any good either. I understand the desire to try and force her to recognize what she's doing to those around her, but you can't...no one can. It's a revelation that will come in time, but she will have to discover it on her own. You have an agenda (not saying it's a bad one, but you do have one) and that makes everything you say suspicious. Remember, the WAS is a great liar...and they know it. As a result, they don't trust anything anyone says (they know how easy it is to lie and that anyone is capable of doing so)!

Where Are You Going:
It seems that you're reaching the point where you need to just stop for a bit and decide what your focus and goal is at this time. You spend a lot of time asking what you should say, but it's not possible to answer that unless you know what you want to accomplish. If you can answer that, you don't really need us to tell you what to say or what to do. You'll try them and, I would hope, if they didn't move you closer to that goal, you'd try saying or doing something different.

To me, you seem conflicted as to what your primary goal is. Are you most interested in making yourself feel better? Are you most interested in cultivating a possible reconciliation? Are you most interested in getting on with the D? Are you most interested in avoiding a court battle? Are you most interested in protecting yourself?

At one point or another, you've seemed to lean to each of these (and there may be other contenders for the top spot I don't know about). While some of the things you do and say can support more than one of these objectives, there will be (perhaps many) cases where moving toward one particular goal will, by definition, move you away from another. That's where having a top priority comes in. Every interaction should be measured against that top priority with respect to whether it moves you closer to achieving it or further away.

You're heading into the heart of the valley. Hang on. You'll make it (we all do...even if sometimes it seems like we won't).