What to do when their friends suggest leaving?

[Bummedout]

Sometimes doing nothing will produce the response you want. It's not an issue of "control" it's doing something that might work.

The problem is, that I can't recollect any time in any situation where doing zip produced a desired result. So, basically, I'm looking at "Zero, maybe one life experience where I did nothing about something and it worked out well versus 10,00 life experiences where I did something and it worked out well, versus 1000 life experiences where I did something and it didn't work out so well"

This tells me "do something"

For example, if you came home and your W complained that you don't pick your clothes off the ground... every day, you'd start to tune her out.
{/quote]
Probably not. That's actually a minor issue, mainly with my socks when I take my shoes off in the evenings to watch the tube or whatever, and it's infrequent, but it happens. Not so muchsince I lost my job, because I have been helping around the house more since then.

[quote=MrBond]But what if she didn't say anything but left your clothes where they were and let them accumulate. Maybe it'll get you thinking that "hey it's a mess" and you'll pick them up.

The situation never got that far

She gets the result she wanted without saying anything. That's a simplistic example, but you get the picture.

Yea, I see what you're trying to say there, but in my experience that scenario generally would play out as building animosity on the part of the wife being more likely than getting a guy to 'wise up' and could just as easily result in the poor moron complaining about his wife letting the place get messy, on top of her building animosity.

In a nutshell, that's actually a good example of why "doing nothing" in that situation is probably a bad idea. While the outcome you suggest is certainly possible, it's more probable that it wouldn't play out that way.

Or of you're talking to a teenager and kept telling him that he couldn't see a certain girl. It's going to make him want to see her even more.{/quote]

That's largely a myth, but I see your point. All it really does is tick the teen off, it doesn't really change the level of desire for the creep the teen wants to date. But in that scenario also, "doing nothing" simply enables the teen to date the undesirable love interest. As a parent of four myself three who are between 18 and 22, I can assure you, there are things that can be said and done to mitigate the issue effectively.

[quote=MrBond]You want a specific plan of action?

No, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for help, primarily in the form of others experiences when they've tried something to mitigate the damage and negative influence a "friend" can have on trying to keep a marriage together.

Well start writing down the actions you have done and if they produced a negative or positive result.

I could start that list with: "Did nothing and said nothing about her talking to her friend . . . . she'd left to talk to her friend 'sorta okay" and when she came home . . .was chilly" Doing Nothing: Not-so-good.
Do more of that which gets you a positive. Simple as that.

"A half decent listener."

I think that's your issue right there. You are "hearing" what your W and others are telling you, but you may not be "listening".

Nope, not my issue. I hear exactly what ya'll are telling me, the issue with this thread seems to be the other way around, ironically enough. As for not hearing what she is telling me, hey, I doubt that's the problem, but can't declare it with absolute certainty.

No two sitches are exactly alike. You're going to have to start forming your own strategy based on your own circumstances.

I'm quite aware of that. And in doing so . . .I'd like to hear from other people who have actually TRIED to mitigate the damage to a relationship that poor advice from friends can cause, successful or not.

For some reason, people who clearly don't have any experience there seem to think I value their theories on something they clearly have no first hand experience and insight on.

Again: Anyone actually TRIED anything?

[Coach]

Again: Anyone actually TRIED anything?

Yes and it worked.

[robx]

...No, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for help, primarily in the form of others experiences when they've tried something to mitigate the damage and negative influence a "friend" can have on trying to keep a marriage together.

What do you think can be done to mitigate the damage and "negative" influence a "friend" can have on your wife?
You are using typical male logic to deal with female emotion and it never works, you keep using this analytical approach to everything, "...there must be something I can do, in 10,000 life experiences, when I've done something, I've fixed the problem, changed the outcome, etc. etc".

Great.

Let me know after 10,000 marriages if that approach has worked for you.

You're on what, marriage #2 or #3, I haven't read the entire thread, so how is your "approach" working thus far?

Look there is a logic to all of this,
just not the logic you're employing.

You are dealing with emotions, you are dealing with feelings, your wife's feelings and you are trying to deal with them using your male logic and since you're the "smart guy" or at least it sounds like you're trying to convince us indirectly that you are, then be smart, observe reality, reality is your friend, don't go against reality unless you enjoy living on planet fruitopia, what is reality telling you? Talking to your wife, pursuing her, trying to convince her, being analytical, trying to find a solution to this problem, doing research, asking people what can be done to mitigate the negative influence of your wive's friends, and aren't you hitting a wall each time you try anything using these approaches? Wouldn't that be reality? Reality is talking to you and telling you that these things aren't working, didn't work in your previous marriage(s) and isn't working in this one so stop doing what you're doing. Stop doing the same thing over & over again expecting different results each time because that's the definition of insanity.

Here is some logic you can sink your teeth in right now.
Your wife is in love with her feelings.
Her feelings are telling her you're not good for her.
Her feelings are telling her that there is better for her out there.
Her feelings are telling her that there must be other men out there that could be a better husband for her than you are.
Her friends are there for her.
Her friends want her to feel better.
Her friends agree with her because even though they don't have solutions for her problems, they know they want her to feel better, that's what friends do, regardless if their intentions are short sighted, in the end they want what's best for her and they want her to feel better.
Her friends agree with your wife and by doing so, they agree with her feelings which make her feel better.
Remember what I said, your wife is in love with her feelings.

When you tell her to reconcile, to go to counselling, to remember her wedding vows, when you tell her that you'll change or that you have changed and some other foolish nonsense, your wife will want no part of that. Why? Because she's in love with her feelings, her feelings tell her the opposite of what you are telling her and because of that, you will always be on the outside trying to get in. You have to agree with her feelings, you have to stop defending yourself because you are still fighting with her and her feelings, regardless if you admit it or not. So when you hear people tell you to "do nothing", they're giving you good advice because everything you have been doing, doesn't work.

This is what works:
Agree with your wife.
Agree with her friends.
Tell your wife that she is right,
divorce is the best thing,
things aren't working out and this isn't what you want so whenever she wants to proceed with divorce, you'll be fine with it, in fact you'll be better than fine, you'll be fantastic. There is no use in fighting with her and there is no use in trying to change her mind because that just puts you at odds with her feelings and emotions and she is a very feeling and emotional person. Doing these things will work far better than anything you've tried thus far and then... move on with your life, stop trying to save the marriage, start living a single life, detach, move on, improve your life and yourself and go out and have fun instead of being depressed and lonely.

This would work far better than anything else that you and analytical mind will come up with.

I promise you.

[tristan]

W actually set up a meeting with her friend that was telling her to leave. Why? I don't know, she just did. W was not there; it was just her friend and me having a drink at the local jazz club. I don't remember too much of what we talked about. I don't think I tried to pursuade friend to change her mind. It wouldn't have mattered anyway.

After our separation, her friend met OM and HATED him. After we started working things out and W stopped taking OM's calls, he called W's friend to ask how to get W back. Friend's response was "Why the he!! did you go after a married woman in the first place!" Then immediately called W to laugh about his antics.

No moral here. You wanted to know what I did; I told you. I agree with Gucci and Coach. People are unpredictable and can not be controlled. It's not worth the time trying to figure out how to deal with them when the real problem is between you and your W.

Take care,
-T

[Bummedout]

Okay, I'm really not sure where the idea I want to "control" the situation comes from, particularly in the context many of ya'll are using it. "Influence" is a FAR more descriptive word. Anyway . . . I've decided that I'm not a "do nothing" sort, and I'm gonna go with my original plan to let her see the "Beware of Friends Advice" article.

As for me trying to convince ya'll I'm a "smart guy" ehh . . . .not really. I keep pointing out that I'm not a "dumb guy" for the most part. The irony here is some of ya'll egos are "through the roof" here, and simply because I don't cave to your egos, you feel I must be an egomaniac. If the problem weren't so serious, I'd think this was amusing, in all likelihood.

Tristan: Thanks for actually doing what I asked, I really do appreciate it. Not one to beat around the bush too much, being the "shallow, evil, clueless male" most of ya'll have me pegged as being . . . . I'm gonna give it to her in about fifteen minutes, and despite the rather judgmental tone most of you take so quickly . . . I'll fill you in on what happens, good, bad, or indifferent. Maybe someone else can learn from my actual experience, rather than a few unconvincing theories by people prone to snap judgments.

Later,
Ron

[gr8 day 2B alive]

BO, I too am having trouble with W's friend/friends.
They are all single or D and she has been living that life style. She sees her friend go out on dates and hook up with guys and now I found out she hooked up with OM. There is something to be said about the company you keep.
I don't think my W is saying to them she wants to work on M but if she were maybe they would support it. After I found out about the hook up I joined a dating website and my W's friend found me on there. I know that info got back to W.
Last week I true understood the following from robx:

This is what works:
Agree with your wife.
Agree with her friends.
Tell your wife that she is right,
divorce is the best thing,
things aren't working out and this isn't what you want so whenever she wants to proceed with divorce, you'll be fine with it, in fact you'll be better than fine, you'll be fantastic. There is no use in fighting with her and there is no use in trying to change her mind because that just puts you at odds with her feelings and emotions and she is a very feeling and emotional person. Doing these things will work far better than anything you've tried thus far and then... move on with your life, stop trying to save the marriage, start living a single life, detach, move on, improve your life and yourself and go out and have fun instead of being depressed and lonely.

This seems to be working for me.


Up til now I have been patience just focusing on myself for the past 8 months. I finally decide to contact W and tell her we need to discuss our post marital agreement-me moving on with my life and I'm OK with it.

W has contacted me more this week than over the past 6 months.

It's true when they say "People want what they can't have"
Right now I'm showing my W she can't have me.

As for her friend-I can't control who she talks too. I just won't be apart of it.

Coach has and others have seen so much here. Once you really understand what they are telling us, things will start to turn.

Get to your happy place and W will notice.

I know our W's friends issues are a little different but I have a meeting with her next week to show her I am happy no matter what the outcome.

[Bummedout]

Well, I hope it works out for you in the end Gr8. I appreciate the few of you in this thread who don't jump to erroneous and sometimes rather insulting conclusions about my Character, motives, etc. While sometimes "the truth hurts" . . .unfair character judgments are just kind of annoying.

Sounds like your Wife friends are the sort my ex hung with. For the record, they were two sisters, one who was like 29 and had been married and divorced 4 times already, and the other was actually on probation at the time my Ex left, for biting a police officer who had been called to break up a fight with her boyfriend. I vaguely remember my ex telling me about the night it happened. Talk about a Jerry Springer moment . . . . and she actually listened to these morons?

Anyway for all to consider, pick apart, whatever:
I did give her the article, and just said kinda stoicly, "You might want to read this" Then started talking about what I'd cook for dinner. She glanced at it, kinda frowned a bit, then sat it down. Kinda normal "chit-chat" stuff after that.

I saw her reading it after she took a shower and went to bed, which she does early sometimes, nothing unusual about that.
I went in and took a shower, and when I got out, I asked her about "chit chatty" stuff, like the different razors I'd bought and if she thought they'ed be okay on her legs too, since she uses my razors too. It all seemed kinda "matter of fact" and normal, conversation-wise, I don't know what to make about that, but I didn't mention the article, neither did she.

Anyway, I'm up doing this now, which is also fairly normal, since I'm pretty much an insomniac and/or night owl anyway.
(And nope, I don't do the internet porn thing or anything like that, for you folks who question my character)

If anyone gives a rats butt, I'll try to answer any questions, that seem sincere anyway. For better or for worse, I'm gonna try to keep ya'll somewhat "updated" on what's going on, at least for now, on this topic. Frankly, I'm not sure why I'm even bothering, considering many of the ill, subbordinating, and judgmental responses. Maybe someone else is wondering the same thing I am too, hope my experience helps, even if it's to say Okay . . .Bummed screwed up, not gonna do that."

[Bummedout]

Again: Anyone actually TRIED anything?

Yes and it worked.

Okay . . .what worked? Please elaborate, if that wasn't just a cheap shot.

[robx]

. . . . and she actually listened to these morons?

Didn't I cover this already?
She doesn't listen to them.
She has made her own decision already based on her relationship with you up to this point.
She talks to them, she shares her feelings/emotions with them, they are her friends, they agree with her, they may even make suggestions which she'll be open to considering, short sighted ones at that but in the end it's to make her feel better.

I told you already, she's "in love" with her feelings, she believes what she is doing is the right thing to do and her friends agree with her because they want her to feel better, they're not going to fight with her, they're going to encourage her to do what "feels" right.

Everything about db'ing is counter-intuitive and until you realize that you're going to be asking the same questions and for what it's worth, you are starting to sound like a moron, you have people posting on your thread, giving you advice and you keep responding with an attitude of "great theories, do you guys have anything to submit which would really work?"

You aren't open minded.
You aren't willing to try what works because you haven't hit rock bottom yet.
Maybe you don't really care.
Maybe because this is your 2nd or 3rd failed marriage, you've already assumed that it's lost so no use in putting effort into it.

If that's the case, just be honest about this.

BTW,
Giving your WAS books and magazine articles to get her to change her mind will never work. If those books and articles go against her feelings, all you are doing is continuing to tell her and show her that you are selfish and that you don't want to give her what she wants, you only want what you want. She currently wants to separate and divorce and you are telling her that you don't want that and you want something different, something better and if she justs opens up her eyes and brains, she'll see the logic to what you are saying but you are using your logic to deal with her feelings ("here read this article, its very logical and hopefully it will change your feelings about all of this") and you don't want to give her what she wants, you don't want to communicate to her feelings and agree with them (and get on their good side) and maybe that's been part of your marriage up until now, she wants something but you give her something that you want instead which you feel is better than what she wanted.

Sounds pretty selfish to me.

The db advice is usually counter-intuitive and you're going to have to open your mind to the possibility that what you've done so far doesn't work, your logic isn't fixing anything and if you don't change your methods and embrace some new ideas, you're probably going to lose this marriage.

[robx]

Again: Anyone actually TRIED anything?

Yes and it worked.

Okay . . .what worked? Please elaborate, if that wasn't just a cheap shot.

And you need to stop assuming people are against you on this site, you are rejecting advice and information, people are offering it to you, no one is making cheap shots, people are being HONEST with you and you don't seem to want to accept that.

Around here, we call that a 2x4 to the back of the head, you'll get alot of them when you screw up and do things that you shouldn't be doing.

If you're going to act like a moron, you're going to get a few 2x4's....

you'll survive.