Can you see the Morning After

[sage]

Morning Pam!

Was going to try to compress all of my answers to your posts into one post but figured, hey, what the heck? Take it one small step at a time, SAGE! So, here goes...

(I will say this: YES TO LESS CAFFEINE!!!! )

Now I am wondering do I feel that I am so unlovable that David can't possibly love me or say anything nice about me? Not that he would post anything nice as that isn't why he is on the bb. But I got home and saw his thread had a bunch of posts on it, then checked and he had posted right after I finished chatting with him at work. I don't mean I looked at his thread I mean I looked at where he last posted.

So my immediate ASSumption is that it is about me and that it isn't nice.

Ah...so GOOD THING that we're working on shedding our ASSumptions, no????

Seems like you've put both yourself and David between a rock and a hard place...you asked him to join the boards and he did...but now you're "snooping" on his thread (not reading it -- I understand that you're not doing that) and activities...do you want him to feel good about posting, Pam? Do you want us to feel good about responding to him? About seeking his advice?

My suggestion: STOP monitoring the activity (times, posters, etc) on David's thread and STOP monitoring his activity on other people's thread. You got what you asked for Pam (kudos!), can you try not to make it a mixed blessing?

TRUST in the process (DB), Pam.

Am I afraid that he will say something that will make my friends on here not like me anymore? Is it because my two closest friends turned on me last year after listening to David talk about me?

So this is good introspection, Pam...and it sounds like you're darned close to remembering that you can only control youself -- not what D. does or what we do.

We're here on your thread because we care, Pam. What can YOU do, what's within YOUR CONTROL to foster those positive relationships?

Sage

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Pam, You said:

Why isn't he taking any of his advice? Why is he still avoiding me and not showing any interest in communicating with me at all? I guess that is what I don't understand and frustrates me.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree here.

If you look back over my thread, there's weeks when I had absolutely no communication from my husband. Including one whole solid month.

You mention on your thread about phone calls or IM chats with him on a regular basis. It seems to me that you are saying there is no communication between the 2 of you, when it's obvious from what you post, that there is regular communication.

Has there been even an entire day in which the two of you haven't communicated?

It seems to me that you are actually upset that he's not initiating communication in some form or fashion.

Tell me, do you initiate all contact?

Think about it, if you are the one initiating contact, what incentive does he have to contact you?

He knows you are faithful Pam and can count on you for not letting a single day go by without contacting him.

Why would he have any incentive for calling you when he knows he only has to wait long enough?

Pam, I'd love to have you challenge yourself to not contacting him for a day and see what kind of results that gets. When you go a day without contacting him, the next time you speak to him, does he sound refreshed and more relaxed?

If his love language is silence, what kind of message are you sending him when you continue to contact him?

Please think about what I'm saying.

Also, I wanted to tell you that your two friends turning against you strikes me as more about them and their issues, rather than about your husband 'turning them'. I know this is a wound and I understand how you feel. And I'm sorry you are hurting over this.

I still love ya Pam...I only use the 2 x 4 on those I love!

Hugs.

[sage]

Ok, I decided not to take the easy way out and go to bed but to try and do something productive.

Today really hit my problem of not dealing well with certain of my emotions. To me the one today was very definitely self control, as in lack of.

It was not only mental but physical reactions as well, but my thinking becomes unclear and I am agitated and take the agitation/frustration out on someone close to me. Not necessarily physically close but someone I feel emotionally close too.

I shared with David that it is like a two year old having a temper tantrum. Lovely way to feel about yourself don't you know.

So I don't like how the way I respond to the emotions makes me feel about myself. Therefore I am working to come up with steps to deal with them in the future ON MY OWN, WITHIN MYSELF!

I don't believe right at the moment I could sit and meditate, I need to move when I feel that agitated. Well I am tied to that desk all day, my boss would more than likely cover if I said I just needed to walk for a few minutes.

After some physical activity I believe the next step would be to try to meditate, the calm waters seems to really hit me for self soothing.

Once I am calmer then I need to start questioning the thoughts I am having: Are these rational? Are they strictly emotions bubbling out? Are they ASSumptions? What are you thinking exactly and why are you thinking that, do you have proof, is this true?

So game plan in place for future occurrences.

1. Try to do something physical

2. Meditate

3. Question the thoughts that are going through my head

4. DO NOT EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO HANDLE MY EMOTIONS FOR ME

I'm quoting this WHOLE DARNED THING because it is SUCH A GREAT, AWESOME, DB-CENTRIC, SMART, SAVVY, AMAZING POST!!!!

Shiny mentioned walking meditation to you... That's what I mainly did to calm myself during the months when h was having the a but lying about it. I'd get up from my desk and take a quick spin (inside or outside) for 5 minutes.

I'm familiar with 2 ways of doing it...I'm sure there are a jillion more...

1. (This one is easier for me) -- while walking, make an ATTEMPT to clear out all thoughts of your head and focus ONLY on sound. IOW, when you are moving turn your brain and all of your attention to just LISTENING to the sound, the silence, the movement of your body.

2. (Harder for me) Focus all of your mental BW on the act of walking...really slow it down...concentrate every brain wave on breaking down the motions ..."now I am lifting my heel...now my instep...now the ball of my foot...my knee is bending...my leg is..." -- it's not the mind that controls it but the body and then the mind notes every detail of what's happening.

Sage

[sage]

Pam --

Why isn't he taking any of his advice? Why is he still avoiding me and not showing any interest in communicating with me at all? I guess that is what I don't understand and frustrates me.

BIG ASSumption on your part that he's not.
This question (gently wrapping the 2x4 in cotton) is full of expectation and ASSumption and impatience, Pam.

David is doing what David is doing.

Hon, you gotta STOP focusing on that.

You're ASSuming that D. is doing or not doing something...that it should be on your timetable...that it should look how YOU want it to look...

What if David spent his time asking the same question of you?

What would your response be?

So I think I am feeling some hurt and some frustration and reading the first chapter of DR and then the questions just sort of drove it all home to me.

All valid emotions Pam...and it's great that you're recognizing what you're feeling.

Sage

[sage]

Whew! I hope that this piecemeal approach is working!

Actually that is one of my thoughts this morning. That he is no longer a part of my life and to start moving on without him. I don't mean for me to push the D through or anything like that, no reason too as I am not wanting to start another relationship right now.

<snip>

Just trying to accept that he isn't interested in being a part of my life and move on without him. If he decides he wants to come back then see where I am at that time.

Pam -- my 2 cents...how about some middle ground?

IOW, I think it's a TREMENDOUS idea for YOU to focus on YOU...DB'ing FOR YOU...making positive changes, etc.

Focus on what you can control. Always words to the wise.

Can we LEAVE out the ASSumptions about what D is or isn't feeling?

You're still REACTING to your interpretation of D's actions or inactions.

STILL dangerous stuff, Pam.

What if you focus on what you know TO BE TRUE?

Really, really true. NOT your interpretations.

Heck...I'm not sure I'd even spend a lot of time trying to glean fact from interpretation.

Isn't it enough to know that you can DB by yourself, for yourself?

Sage

[psluke]

Yes it is, but to try to stop the pain, I need to try to get David out of my life.

Like when my horse died and I put all of her stuff away.

I am thinking of boxing up his clothes left at the house and all the papers I have put on his desk.

Try to erase a lot of his presence from the house.

Not my only thoughts, but one of them this morning.

[sage]

Yes it is, but to try to stop the pain, I need to try to get David out of my life.

OK...so this is a TOTALLY different statement than the one I responded to.

Can you see the difference between:

1. I think that I need to get D. out of my life in order to DB more effectively, reduce the pain, and move forward

vs.

2. It's obvious that David doesn't want to be part of my life and isn't at all invested in saving our M. so I need to ....

You own #1, Pam.

You're letting #2 own you.

Sage

[psluke]

Now that I have finished on the other thread I have a ton of stuff here to think on!

[psluke]

Good Morning Deb,

I noticed you weren't on here yesterday! Was a bit concerned about you so glad you are all right

Yes, IT'S WEDNESDAY!!!



Hi PIB,

Yes, lots of weekends we have no contact at all, sometimes even on his three day weekends we don't have any contact at all.

I don't initiate all of the contact but I do a lot of it.

Actually I can't tell any difference when I go all weekend in not talking to him or I talk to or see him over the weekend, it doesn't seem to affect him one way or the other.

Of course this is my ASSumption as he doesn't say one way or the other but if I tell him good morning and he doesn't respond or is short I assume he is busy and don't contact him again unless he offers a return message. Sort of I initiate but then let him control the flow or frequency of contact.

I am still kicking around the idea of trying to move on without David. If I do that I will definitely stop contacting him. Actually I am not planning on contacting him today if I can manage that all day.

I really still don't understand the two friends, if they were David's friends and not mine from before the marriage that would be different but these were probably my two longest term friendships. Not a recent friendship or a shallow one. Or at least so I thought. I have been through a lot with both girls. Some very trying times in all of our lives. That is why I think this hurts so bad. Both of them know me well enough to know how bad losing David would hurt me. What I don't understand is why they wanted to hurt me?

Thank you that you still love me! That helps.

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hey Pam,

I'm wondering. Since you have no contact on the weekends, Could he perceive that as because he's not on IM, rather than because you are giving him space? If he knew you were on IM but didn't send a message to him, would he appreciate that more? Would he understand that you are respecting his need for space and time to heal?

I know this is not an easy thing I'm asking you to do. But I'm looking at this as what I would tell myself, given the chance to go back and time and speed the healing process.

If I had known that giving my husband space and time to sort things out on his own would have him living with me in a new home, I'd have gone 2 or 3 months with no contact, and think it was well worth it.

Now, I'm not asking you to do that much!

I'm asking you to go a day without any contact.

Since you are talking about doing this anyway, if you decide to kick him out of your life, why not do it before making this decision and see if it brings you closer to your goals?

Make sense?

Hugs!