Looking for help with WAW

[mza8]

GM, not harsh at all. You're absolutely correct. I was depressed for two years and couldn't get myself straightened out. She said those exact words to me that, "I had two years to find a job and did nothing." Tough to hear my W say that but she was right.

I've reminded myself that what I'm now feeling might just be a small sampling of what my W felt for the past two years. No wonder why she felt like she needed a change and had to move on. I'm sure she felt like I wasn't going to do what I needed to do. I had given her a lot of promises to get a job and do this and do that but never did. At least I now know why or at least I now know that my depression didn't help matters.

I get upset and sad with myself when I think about how this must be what I put my W through for two years. Now I'm getting to feel the pain of it all. I now understand her frustration that she felt like she couldn't get me to change or work on things. Now that's exactly how I feel. Oh yes, I most certainly get it now. I just hope it's not too late.

After she left I was upset because I thought she didn't support me when I needed her. What a stupid thought by me. She supported me for two years. She tried. She went out and worked everyday and financially supported us. She tried to get me to see a doctor to see if I was suffering from depression. She tried to get me to go to MC with her (once) about a year ago because I'm sure she was frustrated and felt like she was getting no where with me. Yes, I know exactly how she must have felt. It sucks to know that I made her feel this way. It rips at my heart to know that I made the most important person in my life feel this way when all I ever wanted to do was make her feel like she was on top of the world. I can see why she would need time to regain her trust in me if she ever does.

[gucci loafer]

Gucci, you do give good advice and I appreciate it and listen. I realize there are two approaches, the softer approach and the firmer approach. I know the DB talks about not continuing down cheeseless tunnels.

This is where you are mixed up and don't seem to understand and you have GM helping you be weak...

Why are you thinking that leaving her alone and not contacting her means that you are taking a "firmer" approach? Get a grip 8. She has told you she wants a divorce. She wants the house up for sale. That means she feels she wants out.

No wonder you and GM are in the position you are in. You STILL are not LISTENING to her.

ARE YOU LISTENING TO HER SILENCE?

She told you she wanted out.
She changed her name.
She wants the house sold.
She isn't contacting you...

So. Flowers and calling with an excuse to talk IS PURSUIT. Quit denying it just because you have someon willing to go along with this charade. It is pursuit. Plain and simple. Sending flowers in this culture is known as romantic and known as showing your love in this situation.


You are not listening. The way she will feel listened to is when you show her
"I GET IT, aha, I get it. You want a divorce and you don't want to be with me. Got it. I will leave you alone. I won't send you flowers and I won't find an excuse to call you."

You still want what YOU want and you still are being selfish and you and GM are trying to slant this to look as if you are being so soft and this isn't hurting you..

It IS. Every mistake you make is compounded in a crisis...

She has given you every reason to believe she wants you to let go. Give her what she wants. You need to get some backbone and man up here. You are going to be fine.

[Glimmerman]

Gucci

My sitch and mza8's are not the same, he's just asking about the steps I chose to take. The advice you have given to mza8 is fine as far as I'm concerned. I have never claimed to be an expert, or be experienced. I'll defer to you on that.

My W and I are in contact (we never cut off contact) she does not want to sell our house, etc. We are currently working on our M, and it was initiated by my W.

And yes, I did hear the "I'm done, no hope" etc., but rather than saying something like "this isn't working for me, either", I chose to be patient and wait until she was ready to talk. I personally am not interested in finding another woman.

I realize mza8 is not where I am, and I feel bad for him.

[MrBond]

"you have GM helping you be weak..."

Kind of an @$$ statement to make. IMHO.

[Steve McQueen]

And yes, I did hear the "I'm done, no hope" etc., but rather than saying something like "this isn't working for me, either", I chose to be patient and wait until she was ready to talk.

Why would you want to talk about a failing relationship. What a miserable conversation. When things were good, you didn't talk about your relationship, you talked about your kids, or having kids, and how great life was, and made plans. You talked about who you were and they told you their secrets and desires.

Don't make this too much work.

If you ever get a chance, study Hapkido. It is a Korean martial art with an emphasis on self defense. One thing you realize quickly is if you are trying too hard it doesnt work, but when you do it easy, right, snap! you break the attacker's wrist, or elbow or dislocate their shoulder with little work involved. Relationships are alot like that. The harder you make it, the more you work, and fail, and the more the other person is like, this is crap I want out.

I personally am not interested in finding another woman.

From your first post,

I did ask her on a date and she said no.

When I was seven, I chased rainbows. It didn't get me anywhere. Rejected. That is more than enough reason to change your plan and try something else that might work.

[Glimmerman]

Good words, Steve. There's no doubt we had some hard conversations that were not the funnest things to have. I did find that as I "relaxed" that our conversations got easier and more productive.

Things have changed quite a bit since my first post.

[mza8]

Thanks everyone for checking in. Look, the bottom line for me here is that I want to save my marriage. That's why I'm here. I look for other similar situations and see if there is anything from those situations that I can learn. Glimmerman's sitch and mine are similar because we don't have OM in the picture. We have some other similarities and some differences.

I'll be the first to admit that this is very unfamilar territory for me. No, I certainly don't know the right things to always do in this situation. That's why I ask for advice. I have made some mistakes during this process that are against the DB principles but God knows I'm trying.

Gucci, are you for me or against me? I think you're for me and helping me save my marriage but some times I can't always tell. I think I understand and you're trying to get me to man-up and do things that will be more attractive to my W and stop the things that are pushing her away? Would that be a fair assessment?

Maybe I used the wrong word in saying I should take the "firmer" approach. My meaning was that I should stop looking for excuses to contact her and start NC. Actually I have been NC for quite a while now. She contacted me when we were getting ready to sell the house and for updates for the past several weeks. I have been leaving her alone. I don't want to give the wrong impression that I've been bugging her. Yes, I did send the flowers and I probably shouldn't have. First mistake I've made in a long time. I'm not going to contact her. I do get it that right now she feels like she still wants out. I need to accept this. Yes, deep down I do want things to work out, Yes, it does hurt like hell.

I know I think about this too much and how to fix this. I know that this marriage can be saved. People that know my W and I think this marriage can be saved. Hell, I have people my W and I have recently met that have talked to my W say they think the marriage can be saved. I know I have been too anxious for wanting things to improve quickly. I do hear her silence loud and clear. I know where her feelings are right now but I'm hoping they will change back for me.

I am so grateful for people reading and contributing to my thread. I hope that everyone will still check in and keep giving me advice. It is so helpful and I thank everyone for their support. Glimmerman's sitch seems to be improving and I'm very happy for him. I hope to be where he is one day. I'm trying to get there. I do think at this time I need to stop contacting her. I've been doing a good job with GAL. I've got a lot of new things going on for me.

I'm trying guys, I'm trying...

[mza8]

Ok, could use a little insight on a new develpment today. As you know I sent my W flowers for her birthday last Friday. I sent flowers to her work and to her parent's house where she is living. On Sunday after church I drove by the gym with another small bouquet of flowers with a funny birthday card and left it on her car. She was at the gym. I had these flowers since Friday and didn't know how else to get them to her. I wanted to get these particular flowers to her because of the funny birthday card with them I wanted to give her. So I brought the flowers with me after church and when I saw her car at the gym, I left them for her. I didn't go into the gym that day so as not to run into her. I thought it would be a nice surprise for her when she came out. I used to leave flowers on her car many years ago and I thought it would be nice to do something special like this for her again.

Ok, that's the story with the flowers. Yes, I know, way too much pursuing. Yes, I've already admitted that I shouldn't have done it. Can we move past this, because I finally heard from my W today and could use some insight.

She emailed me today and thanked me for sending her the flowers to her work and parent's house and said she appreciated me thinking of her on her birthday. That's pretty much all I said in the card that I was thinking about her. Anyway, she went on to say that me leaving the flowers on her car at the gym made her feel a little uncomfortable. Also, my father's birthday is the same day as her's and she said she hoped my father had a good birthday.

So I'm trying to figure out if it's a good thing that she finally acknowledged and thanked me for the flowers and thanked me for thinking of her on her birthday? Again, yes, I know it was overboard and the flowers left on her car made her feel uncomfortable. That obviouosly wasn't my intention. I do see now how that could have made her uncomfortable. I did what I wanted to do and failed to see how it could have made her feel. I guess the flowers I sent to her work and parent's house was ok, she didn't say she had a problem with them or that I shouldn't have sent them. I would think she would have told me she didn't want the flowers to work and home if it was a problem. She was clear to let me know the flowers on her car made her feel uncomfortable.

Strange that she finally acknowledged the flowers as I sent them last Friday (and on her car Sunday). I guess she finally felt comfortable enough to contact me about them. I think it was good that I at least didn't contact her since I sent the flowers and waited for her to contact me. I'm glad I didn't use the house update as an excuse to contact her. By the way, she didn't mention anything about wanting an update about the house. The email was just a few sentences about the flowers and wishing my father a happy birthday.

I would like to hear what you think about this email? What should I do, if anything? Should I take this opportunity to just say that I hoped she liked the flowers and apologize for making her feel uncomfortable leaving the flowers on her car or do I just not reply to her email? I can see both sides. One, is that I do nothing as she simply acknowledged the flowers. Two, is that I take this opportunity to validate her feeling that the flowers on the car made her feel uncomfortable, apologize and tell her that was not my intention and leave it at that...simple. This could be an opportunity to show a 180 and show her some changes that I am acknowledging her feelings. I'm concerned that if i don't apologize and vaildate her feelings that she will feel that I'm not respecting her.

I am absolutely shocked that she actually acknowledge the flowers at all and thanked me for thinking of her on her birthday. I'm not making a big deal that she acknowledged the flowers as some great sign or possible positive development. I simply want to know if and how I should respond.

Could really use some advice on this one.

[MrBond]

You are making a big deal about the flowers. Look how huge your post is about them. Just respond back "you're welcome" and that's it.

Don't keep making a big deal about them because she already told you they made her feel uncomfortable. And I'm not talking about just the gym one. All of them probably made her feel that way but she's being polite.

Just acknowledge and move on.

[DaddyLongShanks]

mza8,

Your wife is obviously in the WAW mindset. You did nothing wrong, in the context of a normal relationship hearing that flowers made them uncomfortable would indicate a problem.

You did nothing wrong, your obviously dealing with a WAW in her mind is not "with you".

Are you even on the "friends ladder" in ladder theory?