MLC - standing by my man

[Mila]

Thanks SA, I agree with your advice, I just really don't want to talk to him right now.

I still could cancel the vacation I booked...and looking at the dates and daughter's summer schedule, that's probably the best time for her to go and visit her friend (that's why I booked the vacation in that time frame). And she really wants to...first time traveling by herself to Europe. I just wish that he'd consulted with me...I will have to set some rules about such things for the future.

[Marked&Healed]

I agree with SA's advice also, but your plan is also good. If it doesn't really matter when you take vaca with D, then go ahead and just move on. Pick your battles, you know.

BTW - I changed my name from Passenger, in case you wanted to know.

[Mila]

Hello Pass.... I guess I will call you MH now.

Pick your battles....you are right, I'll leave it and set some rules for the future. I may even keep that week and go by myself or with a friend, we will see.

I signed up for couple of social groups on Meetup, not dating at all, just social events to GAL to go for group bike rides or wine tasting, tennis and such. Well I have couple of guys emailing me now. I'm not ready for that, I don't even know how to do that anymore lol & mainly I just don't want to. Now it kind of discourages me to go to the meetups, because I'm worried about dating pressure from guys. But I guess I have to overcome that and learn how deal with them. After being married for so long and mostly going out with H, I never had to worry about stuff like that. This is like a whole new scary world out there.

[SecondChance]

Hi Mila,

Just stopping by to say hi.

Don't really know what else to say, except that I am very mad at your WH for what he is doing! How on earth anyone can justify that sort of behaviour is beyond me, but then again, they do. Surreal.

You sound very strong, that is a good thing, stay Strong.

- SCh

[Mila]

I know SCH, there is not much to say right now . But thank you for thinking of me and for stopping by.

I'm even beyond wondering how on earth could he justify what he is doing to me....it doesn't matter why...he just does...not the same man...who knows if he ever will be again.

He took the fight right out of me with this last false R. I'm kind of thinking "I give up"...whatever...who cares...go and claim your prize...you deserve each other...try and be happy with all the destruction you both left behind.

Oh well, I'll snap out of it...little bitter right now

[HeartsBlessing]

mind you when he wanted to R only a month ago he told me that he regretted that the affair ever happened and he may have believed it at that time, and a week later she contacts him again and it's back on...mind is a curious thing, is't it?

Mila, an affair is an emotional ADDICTION, and breaking an addiction takes TIME to do so, and only if the person suffering it WANTS to break it; and even that takes time.

When one is addicted, they are WEAK, and that weakness has to be overcome..again that takes TIME to do so.

There wasn't enough TIME for him to break the addiction..this was what OW Withdrawal was all about, time for him to get her out of his head/heart, to break his ADDICTION to her.

I hope I'm making sense with where I'm going with this.

He was/is addicted to how she made him FEEL...she made him feel SPECIAL, and for some crazy reason in this altered state he's in, he did not want that from you.

Affairs are a total rejection of responsibility, the OW/OM strokes the ego, not reminding the MLC'er of what they are responsible for...this is all fun and games...at least for a time.
Usually when the affair hits the light of day, and has to take a step toward actual committment, it falls apart in time as the couple generally will discover they don't even LIKE each other and really don't have that much in common besides the affair...also there comes a time when the true colors are shown on one or BOTH sides; and that may be enough to dissolve it.

One other thing that can happen, especially when it is TWO MLC'ers...one or both begins to "awaken", and realize that this is WRONG, and begins the attempt to break it off, and it is hard when you have one trying to get away and one that is pursuing.

The MLC'er has to gain the necessary strength and motivation to end it..or it gets ended FOR him/her...either way the Withdrawal from the affair begins, unless contact is made either way, then it actually starts the withdrawal process all over again...again, we are talking about an addiction here.

This can even be applied to the idiot MLC'ers who decide to keep OW/OM, quickly divorce the LBS and marry their affair. The SAME thing mentioned above can happen only in THIS case, the LBS generally will NOT have anything to do with them, causing them to go through the SAME crap they put the LBS through.
Then, they end up LOSING everything..only they didn't see it until it was TOO late to do anything about it.


The feelings in an affair themselves can be addictive..but that high does NOT last long at all, and will fade into embers. I remember reading somewhere that this comes within two years from the start of the affair.

The affair itself smacks of teen age behavior, the feelings of children wanting to be accepted by the affairee. It has also been said that the affair can also be a replay of a connection between children and parents, with a proper breaking coming after the replay of that time is finished.

The LBS is viewed at the staunchion(pillar of strength or even a lighthouse in the fog), the person who bears responsibility, it can go as far as them being viewed as an authority figure; the one that's large and in charge. They represent something the MLC'er wants NO part of while he/she is in this altered state....RESPONSIBILITY.

When it was ME, as a LBS, I had to make sure I was NOT viewed as his mother/keeper/jailer. Even though I was bearing a great deal of responsibility, I could NOT pressure him at all; except during certain times, and I documented those in my history.

I made a great many mistakes in the very beginning before I knew what this was about, and in stumbling, actually did SOME things right in the case of OUR SITUATION. But every person is different, and, apparently, my husband wasn't exactly going anywhere, though he threatened to, yet backed down when I put the decision BACK on his shoulders.

When I knew and learned about what was going on, (as OW Withdrawal was going on) I learned to alter my attitude toward him, treating him as a friend, a stranger up the street; on the other hand, I made dang sure he didn't know half of what I was up to quite a bit of the time.

I also made sure he did NOT control me and what I did...I kept him at arm's length, stayed out of his way as much as possible, getting on with my life AS IF he weren't there.

This was NOT easy for me, but I managed it, in spite of wanting to wring his neck half the time.

No, I did NOT ask him to leave, that was HIS choice, not really mine, especially after OW had left the picture. There were things I had to deal with, BUT, I eventually learned where his responsibility ended and mine began...that's different for each couple/marriage.

Some questions/comments that I'm wondering about:

There have been some who've said the MLC'er needs to move out to face their issues, but have any ever considered what kind of damage it does to the MLC'er when ASKED to leave by the LBS?

I'm speculating here, but would it not be the SAME kind of hurt they experienced as children, depending upon their issues?

It could also be seen as taking away the power of decision away from them; especially when the LBS has kicked them out because of OW/OM, without at least giving them a decent chance to maybe break this off on their own.

I know some MLC'ers leave on their own, but what about those who try and come back, and are blocked by the LBS who says the MLC'er is not "ready"? Is it possible the LBS is the one who's not ready?

Things like this have nagged at me since I came back this time.
Understand I am NOT lecturing anyone, or telling anyone they are wrong for what they do, I'm just raising several thoughts I've had for some time.

Time, distance, and healing has caused me to think more deeply than I ever did before about this, and with that, comes speculation about things. Any comments, flames, disagreements are welcome, as I would like to understand this a little more myself. I only went the one way, so it's what I know that worked for us/me.

I can hear the response: "What about the hurt being done to the LBS?" As each MLC is different, each person is different, and no circumstances are EVER the same.
So, I cannot give a blanket response to that. Each LBS knows their limits....I had NOT reached mine, and never did reach a limit within myself, where I was unable to stand anymore of what I was seeing within him.

I have experienced this same type of hurt, and chose to stand WITHOUT asking him to leave or me leaving....does this mean I was a fool for choosing this path?

No, I had a good working idea of what I could stand, but at times it was almost more than I could stand, watching him crawl his way through this.
Sounds contradictory, but one thing I did know:

He was NOT this way before the crisis, and that really affected my decision to go or stay myself..things got so bad that I did entertain the thoughts more than once..but they never saw the light of day.

As a child, he had suffered actual physical and emotional abandonment at the hands of his mother even BEFORE his parents divorced, being raised by his sister, who was 18 years older than he was. He was bounced one way, then another for the majority of his life.
When he met me, I was the ONLY constant he'd ever had in his life; the only one who did NOT abandon him, even during his MLC.

This does NOT earn me a medal or anything; and I don't expect one.
But the kind of person I have always been has been one that will hang in there until I KNOW I cannot help anymore, and even then, I'm STILL there. I know I cannot save the world, but I was determined to save my marriage if it could possibly be saved...right or wrong.
I pulled out ALL the stops, learned what I was taught, even faced the possibility that he could STILL walk away, and that was told to me by my husband when he broke the stage of Withdrawal.
Yet, I continued to do what I knew I needed to do, regardless, always in the hope that he would go on and stay, even before I KNEW he'd even had the thoughts of leaving me.

Having hope is NOT the same as expectations..mine were at zero, but I always kept my hope alive, even while things didn't look right.
I could not always see what was going on within him, but I continued to hope, and allow things to go on and unfold as they would.

I did NOT lose that ability to hang in there when I suffered my transition; I DO let go of what I know I need to let go and stand when I need to stand; always letting go of the outcome, but always in the hope things will come out all right.

ANYONE can gain that kind of strength, I am NOT the only one who has gained this.

He saw that, and remembered how I'd treated him while he was within the tunnel, remembering things I had forgotten...certain things he saw as 'key' things...my attitude change toward him was a major thing, it CHANGED him, when I changed toward him.

As we talked quite a few things through at the end of the withdrawal stage, I let him know in no uncertain terms that he got this one affair free..but there would NOT be another...he never admitted what he did, and hasn't to this day.
And I'm ok with that, having gotten past it and forgiven him, also healing from the damage it did to my emotional state at that time.
But, what I said must have gotten through at that time, because it has NOT repeated itself.
That has told me that it was a symptom/by product(whatever you'd like to call it) of his crisis a one time thing..the altered state of mind he'd had then, although, there is NO excuse for adultery, NONE.

Knowledge is truly power, I WILL know if something like this comes about again...but I'm not searching out every nook and cranny looking for it; I don't snoop at all..no need to anymore; haven't had that need in years.
If I don't understand something I WILL ask about it, instead of just assuming he knows what he's doing..things DID change because of his crisis and what happened within it.

He's free to ask whatever he needs to of me...I, like him, have nothing to hide..it's all pretty open.



I started to put this on another thread, but thought, what the heck, I guess, in a way, it would ALL go together.


Mila, my deepest apologies for having partially hijacked your thread tonight.

I hope all is going well with you in spite of the circumstances at the moment.

Much love,
HB

[1000ships]

HeartsBlessing,

Thanks for your thought provoking questions and comments. I faced these same questions throughout my Stand.

There have been some who've said the MLC'er needs to move out to face their issues, but have any ever considered what kind of damage it does to the MLC'er when ASKED to leave by the LBS?

Each LBS knows their limits... I had a good working idea of what I could stand.

I think you answered it yourself. I believe in my vows and felt it would be abandonment were I to have not chosen to Stand. But like you, I also knew I could handle it. But since each MLCer differs and the reactions and responses of the Standing spouse lead to changes on the path, different things are needed for each situation. Separation is risky--though often the MLCer leaves and the LBS is not a part of this choice. I prefer not to recommend separating unless the situation is dangerous or the LBS is not strong enough to handle living with an MLCer.

[Kicking the MLCer out] could also be seen as taking away the power of decision away from them; especially when the LBS has kicked them out because of OW/OM, without at least giving them a decent chance to maybe break this off on their own.

I found this comment the most interesting because I lived it. I had a multiple returner; total there were 8 in/outs. A few of those were days to a week or two, most were a 3+ months. I kicked him out on only one of those occasions. I think that many will see a contradiction because on most occasions I steadfastly believed he needed to make the choice to move out. But why and what was different about the single occasion when I literally forced him out?

It was simple. He was taunting and promising to leave...to the point that I knew it was a matter of time and he would go, but but he wanted me to break and be the bad guy. When I kicked him out, he was not trying to leave but had been trying to be in a marriage with me while now secretly continuing to see the OW. He had been home for a year and we'd been in counseling. It was a boundary issue that if there was an OW (always the same OW) I would not allow him to be in with me; he knew that. When I discovered he was still seeing her, I first confronted him. His Mom had been in the hospital on the same floor where the OW worked and he had (darn it) had valid reason for bumping into her. He caved quickly. The next day I said goodbye when he left to work and then packed his bags. I met him at the door when he got home, escorted him from the back where he entered to the front. It was that fast. Had he crashed on his friends' couch inst ad of at the OWs', I might have let him re turn home within a few days, but I knew he would go to her--he always lived at her place when not at home. Had I not acted swiftly regarding this boundary issue, he would have escalated and become worse since I had not maintained a boundary but instead allowed myself to be abused.

It is also important to note that I did this with complete certainty that he would want to return. This is not the case with all MLCers. He quickly began begging to be allowed to return and telling me he would be the Stander if I filed for divorce. Unfortunately I caved and let him return without upholding my other boundary--no moving directly from the OW to me. That was a boundary because we had done that repeatedly and it had failed. A direct move may succeed in other situations, though I would be hesitant.

I know some MLC'ers leave on their own, but what about those who try and come back, and are blocked by the LBS who says the MLC'er is not "ready"? Is it possible the LBS is the one who's not ready?

Absolutely. Both the MLCer and LBS need to be ready. I was wondering if your question had an intentional implication that if it is the LBS who is not ready, she should let the MLCer return anyway. Though I fear holds people back and often being ready is a byproduct of doing, I feel it is important that the LBS feels safe and strong within her own Self to deal with reconciliation and what might be a premature return.

Having hope is NOT the same as expectations

Few people understand this and yet it is fundamentally important. Even dictionaries get it wrong. Linking hope with expectations is dangerous.

Thank You and HUGS

[Marked&Healed]

HB, can you please comment on the affair seeing the light of day - if the WS exposes it (as I did ala advice from the infidelity boards) vs it dying a natural death?

I hear MLC WS say all the time that you should not expose the A. However, I did and it seemed to get them riled up for a time and then it went back underground. (aka exciting and new again)

[Mila]

HB & 1000ships

I didn't have any choice in the decision. He was the one who wanted to leave. I've tried to prevent it, but he made the choice. When he wanted to R the fist time (OW ended it because she couldn't go through with leaving her H & kids) I took him back the same day, no hesitation, I was ready to move forward.

Couple of months later he wanted to leave again (he was in touch with OW almost the whole time he was back) and he left and in another 3 months he wanted to R again (OW bailed out yet again). After the first False R I didn't trust that he was coming back for the right reasons and was worried that the affair is not dead for good. So I told him that I want to R but lets take it slower. Good thing he didn't move right back because within a week after he told me that he wants to work on us OW recontacted him again and he was making plans with her while still leading me on that he wants to R.

Would I want him to stay home while this was all going on? I don't know. The 2 months he was at home when he first wanted to R were horrible, there was so much anger from his side, I was bending backward trying to please him and was walking on eggshells the whole time. He just didn't want to be there...he continued the affair and was basically just waiting for OW to make-up her mind to leave her H. Showed absolutely no interest in R.

[Marked&Healed]

For you, it's probably best that he leaves. What I mean by that is that it seems to be wearing on you. Perhaps it's not the best for the R of your M, but it seems like taking some time off for you could be very beneficial right now. I'm so sorry you find yourself here again. What a jerk this alien is being to you. Hope your H comes through soon...