ok, I saw comments earlier before coming to work, but I decided to think on them...
I have quite a bit to say and there are a few different threads of thought runing through here...
Regarding being Plan B
This is a toughie. But I will put it this way. In a scenario where a spouse returns to the home or wants to return to the home once the affair has lost its lustre, often the LBS initially feels a sudden sense of confidence now that the battle is over - angry that they had to fight for something they thought they had won already years ago.
OK, so, they decided to run the gauntlet and roll the dice. You get delegated to safety net while they comparison shop for a newer/younger/better model and test the waters. MWD covers this in DR under MLC. Her point there is similar to what I am going to make here. Some spouses get so miserable and so selfish that doubt hits them HARD and they decide to covertly explore, only to find out what is at home is a whole lot better than what they found out there.
So, is it an offence to you integrity or pride to take them back? After being left in the gutter for months or even years?
I think you need to assess their potential. Most spouses coming back under most circumstances are still not the best they can be... Far from it. Most of them are still in a state of confusion and frustration, but have for whatever reason found the motivation to return and explore their marriage for a possible port in a storm.
Is this a bad thing?
No
Is it what I want?
No, you deserve better.
Guess what? YOU are now in THEIR shoes. YOU have doubt, YOU are angry, YOU are miserable... YOU can reject them as being not worthy of you and start to look away OR you can work with them to get them and you to a healthier place.
When my wife finally decided she wanted to explore coming back, she was not at all in a place where she would fit a healthy mould... she and I are still growing together again.
Don't let how bad the sitatuion is during the spouses return throw away all YOUR hard DB-ing work you did for months and months. Work with them. Assess their potential and ask yourself again - Do you take this person? Ask yourself if the work involved is do-able for you or not.
Mb28 I think your Husband has demosntrated a terrible amount of selfishness since January... a four-month foray into self-involved deluded fantasy with a side order of lies and abuse just to make your life all that much more interesting... He has to work on that. But the question is - do you think he CAN get to the place he needs to be so this does NOT happen again? Do you think he can become for the FIRST TIME a REAL HUSBAND? Do you think if he worked with you and a FT he could get there?
If so, then you give him that chance. This does not mean you offer a marriage to him again. But you give him the hope he needs to roll up his sleeves. When reconcilliation is initiated by the WS things turn around... suddenly the LBS is wayward and doubtful. Do NOT allow your marriage to go through TWO phases of waywardness... roll the dice and give him a shot if you think he can get there... give him the hope to try.
Now...
This being said, he's still cheating right now. Do NOT back down on that. If he asks what you need from him you TELL HIM to END his AFFAIR. If you tell him all you need is a little time, he's just giong to start seeing BOTH of you again and lie to you about her. YOU cannot perform adequately under those circumstances and he will end up giving up on you. It's NOT a FAIR way to explore reconcilliation and it doens't work. If he needs to know what he needs to do :
1. End your AFFAIR 2. Work with me and a FT for a few months 3. See where things go
You are doing great by pushing the D into his lap EACH TIME... you ALWAYS do that and that's terrific... NEVER take ownership of the divorce he's pushign for... NEVER You are great with that
If he pokes at you for a relationship temp - don't give him anything.
Get a business card from your FT with a HAND WRITTEN INVITE from your FT on the back inviting your H to make an appointment..
That's ALL your H gets right now.
If he wants to negoatiate about the marriage he goes through the FT - NOT YOU... got it?
If he wnats to find out what you need from him as a husband he needs to ask your FT - NOT YOU.
You aren't Plan B my dear. You are a wife, the OW is a mistress, he's choosing a marriage over a mistress.
Him coming back doesn't mean you are plan B, it means the affair has lost its lustre and he may come to his senses - this does NOT happen right away. It often takes MONTHS and MONTHS for the fog to go away AFTER the affair is done and for the WS to come to you and honeslty say "ok, i see what happened and I was a fool, I am so sorry..."
You won't hear that SINCERELY (note this 4luv) SINCERELY for MONTHS of WORK.
The day after the affair is over a WS canot possibly fathom the hell they put their LBS through. Many try to convince you they now understand... They are just talking BS... They have no idea. It will take them MONTHS to learn the damage they have done. MONTHS of WORK.
If your spouse wants to come back you aren't Plan B, they are just getting to a point where they are willing to explore their marriage one more time... This is NOT an insult, its a MILESTONE.
If you toss them out simply becuase for the first time in your relationsihp you have the power and the initiatiev to hurt THEM.. you are no better than THEY are.
Give them hope, and a business card for your FT and send them on their way with a "lets talk in session" and go to neutral corners.. REST.. the WAR is OVER.
You aren't plan B, you have just reached a MILESTONE
Now, regarding the hot - warm thing. In DR MWD kinda muddles this, but she makes it to my mind pretty clear that if there is an affair going on and the WS won't END it - you are in LRT - period.
This means all the warm fuzzy stuff about being warm to them and acting as if - is OUT. You shut them out - you are in defcon five and its time to show them what divorce means - it means SILENCE.
That's all they get.
YOU work on YOU.. YOU be as warm and loving as you can to everyone who supports you and your marriage, but your WS gets ZERO.. got it? That's my take on it.
If they are showing some remorse - don't go soft on them... HIT them when they feel GUILT to bring it out even MORE. If they say they are having doubts and are coufused -
"WELL, infidelity does mess with your head ya know, I am not surprised you can't make any sense of this senselessness... why do you think people created the institution of marriage anyways? Becuase it makes more SENSE than running around in SECRET and LYING to people.. that is NOT in ANY WAY a place to raise children - marriage is a nest for our children - not divorce... no wonder you are so damn confused."
And just walk away
If they are just showing anger, hop on the phone and be as warm and loving as you can to someone else right in front of them... It will help calm them down, but THEY still get NOTHING.
You have the FT's business card. He/She would very much like to help us and our children, but he's not going to chase you. You want answers you need to call him/her. I promised my FT I would not pressure you and I am honouring that. If you want to talk about our marriage you need to talk to our FT - he/she is the one with the answers to your questions.
Status : Husband is having an affair. I am hoping he will stop hurting me and our children and work with our Family Therapist to save our family...
Or maybe something less bludgeoning...
What you want on the FB page is the same stuff that you tell HIM when you confronted him.
You want to save your marriage Infidelity is hurting you AND your children You are destroying TWO homes with your lies and your betrayal I am willing to work with a FT to explore reconcilliation when you END your AFFAIR
I said this before in a different thread, but the point is - YOU need to keep YOUR communication CONSISTENT
If you confront about his affair on one day, and then make him dinner the next... do you hoenslty think that kind of approach is going to bring him back? It's going to leave him frustrated and confused.
CONSISTENTCY is ESSENTIAL when you communicate.
And by communicate i mean ANY act - verbal or physical that conveys information to your spouse.
It MUST be teh SAME thing you said BEFORE... If you keep changing the station no one is going to want to listen to the darn radio are they?
Keep it consistent. FB, your text,s your emails, verbal communication, ALL of it should say the SAME THING on EVERY subject.
Don't tell him one day you are ok with his behaviour and expose it as harmful the next...
Mb28 I think with YOUR He he wants YOU to give in, for YOU to end the marriage so HE can avoid the resonsability.
So.. do what you have been doing... EMPHASIZE at EVERY OPPORTUNITY that the DIVORCE is ALL HIS
When you do that it puts a LOT of weight on his shoulders and forces him to think long and hard... and when he thinks I think it puts some reality into his head... and some doubt.
Keep showing indifference.. don't let him bait you into a M talk... always send him back to FT for any talk.
Do NOT try to sell the FT to him ... he will just refuse to go. Just tell him the FT is there and let HIM make the choices... Just give him the busienss card with the hand written invite on the back and leave it.
Each time he tries to talk about the M you tell him
"I made a promise to the FT that we would NOT talk about M without his involvement. Please respect my commitment there and call him if you want to ask any questions... He knows how I feel and he has the answers you want.. not me."
Always put the children in ANY convo... you seem to have a habit of ignoring the kids when you say things like
"you have to do what makes you happy"
This is just catering him to run away and cheat... he needs to be reminded he is a husband AND a father...
Once you marry and have kids you have to do what makes YOU, your WIFE, AND your KIDS happy
They ALL get a vote, whether they are there or not.. whether they even KNOW hwat you are donig or not...
If harm will come to anyone from a given action, you need to knock it off... that's what he really needs to hear, not this "run away and be happy" stuff.
I know that's not what you mean, but believe me that is very likley what he HEARS when you tell him that stuff. SO be very careful about that.
Your H is fishing for support for his divorce... your H isn't the type to just do something because it pleases him - he wants to know he isn't offending anyone.. He DOES hvae a conscience, but his infidelity has his head so damn messed up right now he can't think for 3 seconds without putting himself through a LOT of STRESS...
And his response to stress seems to be to poke at YOU for R talk and take temperatures...
THAT needs to stop, he needs to go to a FT if he wants answers, NOT you.
More to come, but my hands are getting tired from all the typing... lol
Allen A - Wow, you are defiently a writer. Thank you so much for taking all that time to reply, I bet your hand is tired.
I'm seeing my FT therapist tonight and will ask him to write an invitation to H on a card. But how do I give it to my H? We do have a bag of clothes for the kids that is going back and forth to our places. And I do put any mail I get from him in it, should I just slip it in there? If I do that, it might get lost amongst the clothes and mail. Or do I wait until I can hand it to him in person?
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
Wait for him to approach you in person about M or D...
You get up and say "oh, I have something for you from my FT..."
YOu get up, you find it in your purse... act like its no big deal and take TIME FINDING IT.. dont rush to get it and wave it at him or anything like that.. casual.. always casual
You get it and put it on the talbe in front of him...
You tell him its from the FT...
and tell him if he has any quesitons aobut fixing a marriage or how you feel he can ask the FT. Tell him you made a commitment to the FT you would'nt talk to your H without the FT involved to help.
I want to come up with somthing like...
"Our FT told me getting myself or anyone to talk to you isn't fair to you and that you should talk to him direclty, HE is the only one who is trained to properly help us... everyone else needs to BACK OFF"
I am HINTING that OW needs to back off too.. but I don't think saying it at that time would help...
He will get the hint anyways...
He will also feel SAFER...
Just put the card on the table... let HIM PICK IT UP on his OWN
HE needs to take ACTION and HIM pickin gup that card is a big step for him...
Do NOT make a BIG DEAL about him pickin gup the card... just ignore it...
Your FT can write whatever he wants on the card that he thinks will be inviting for your H... you and your FT can talk about that on your own...
My opiniion here is that you should just put the card casually on the table and tell him its from "our FT" and change the subject.. go to the kitchen to get a drink so you aren't even watching him when he picks it up.
Each time my wife wanted info that was constructive I put it on the table and walked out so she could read it safely wtihout me hovering...
If you put the card there and WATCH him its BLATANT PURSUIT.. don't do that.
Just let him pick it up and handle it all on his own.
Talk to your FT about the best script for M or D talk.. feel free to share the samples above with yoru FT for his/her input. I think it should be a simple cut off that leaves your H feeling safe to talk and a strong warning to NOT allow interference from third parties into his marriage.
Third parties rarely help a marriage, most do a LOT of damage. I made a promise to our FT that I would not involve a third party in our marriage other than him. If you want to talk about M or about D, he's the best person to go to... I promsied him I wouldn't talk to you directly or involve anyone else...
Somthing like that maybe.. its a subtle shot at his affair again... but it is worded to make him invited to talk to your FT
Huge backslide on Mothers day that put me in a deep depression. I won't go into all the details, same sh$% as always.
I need help letting go!!!! Everything I do or say, I wonder what he is going to think. I can't do that anymore, I need the strength to move on with my life and that scares me.
Because of the backslide he says he is filing the D papers this week. My therapist said that is probably a good thing, because my H has been holding those over my head.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
Update on my story, sorry this is going to be long.
5/14: We went to dinner with the kids which was nice. H even thanked me for a nice time
5/16: While I was picking up the kids from H apartment, he tells me that his "friend" OW and her 3 kids came over for dinner on Saturday night. I stayed calm and left. But then my daughter informed me that dads "friend" is going boating with him and kids Memorial weekend and a concert with them in July. I called H and told him I was not going to do this anymore and it was time to file the divorce papers.
5/17: H texts: I'm so sorry
I texted: I'm sorry too. Just let me know when the papers are filed
H texts: K I wish I could have been a better husband
H texts: I have spent most of my life loving u. And now I'm lost. I made some mistakes and I am so sorry I hurt u. It's not what I wanted to do. I know you will find a better man.
I emailed him: You were NOT a horrible husband. Up until September, I thought our marriage was ok, and really appreciated the way you treated me. Until then, I had no idea that I was not being the wife that you needed. I never meant to make you feel unloved and rejected. I know the hurt and pain that I caused you the last 4 years is your reason for ending the marriage. My hurt and pain has been from the last 6 months, and mostly has to do with your friendship with Tamryn. In fact that is the reason I asked you to move out on December 3rd, was because of her. I am not blaming her for our martial problems, nor do I think your or her purposely set out to hurt me. But the fact remains that the friendship is hurting me. I realized last night, that she is a very important friend to you and that is not something I can control or even have the right to ask you to give up. With that said, I'm so sorry but I can no longer do this anymore. Up until last night, I had always held onto the hope that someday we would find our way back to each other. I will always care for you and you will always hold a special place in my heart. I do wish you the best, and I hope you find the happiness that you are looking for.
H texts: I am sorry all that came from not trusting me. H texts: That's really sad H texts: With the way u watched me and then instantly accused me of cheating I have believed this whole time u cheated on me
I emailed him: I'm sorry I didn't trust you when this all started. You had never given me a reason to not trust you. I never have cheated on you and I'm sorry for every making you question that. I let my own insecurities take over and started suspecting you of cheating. I think subconsciously I knew that something was wrong with our marriage and that you weren't happy. But I couldn't see the reason why, so I started suspecting another women. When I seen how much you were talking to her, I blew it way out of proportion. In doing that, it made you 2 closer and caused you guys to become such close friends. That is when I became obsessed. You are a good man, and never deserved to be treated that way and for that I'm sorry. However, I can't change the way I feel about the friendship. It hurts me to think of you 2 spending any time together even as friends. As I said before, that is out of my control and you have a right to be friends with who ever you want. I'm not asking you for anything, and I'm not blaming you either. I'm just being honest with why I'm hurting. I don't want to hurt you anymore and I don't want to be hurt either. I never wanted us to end. That is why I finally agree with you that we need to just end it and be the best parents we can be to our kids.
I didn't want to be done, but I don't know what else to do. I can't take the pain anymore and knowing that he is spending on that time with her. He tells me she and one other friend are the only friends he has left. He has known her for 6 months from FB.
NEED ADVICE ASAP:
Just got a text from H: So ur sure u want to file?
How should I respond?
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
