Can you see the Morning After

[lostlove]

this was posted to my by corri in the ssm forum....make's sense to me and is in regard to sending the wrond message...

Bingo. There is the beginning to your answer. She helped make him feel good about himself. She made no demands, laid down no expectations. He could be himself and was not criticized for all that he 'wasn't' doing.

You, on the other hand, are sending him mixed signals. You tell him you want to feel closer to him, yet you continue to act in an angry manner toward him.

Remember, anger is a defense mechanism in our 'fight or flight' interaction with our environment. Anger is there to send a signal to whatever or whomever is trying to hurt us to STAY AWAY.

So you're telling him you want to be closer, but your actions are screaming at him to stay away. You are like a rider kicking your horse to gallop, yet at the same time you are yanking back on the reins. He doesn't know what to do, so, like a horse, he just stands there and feels all jumpy.

But you gotta be careful of this, because like a horse, he is going to reach his limit and try to get you off his back so he can bite you in the butt for all that kicking and yanking.

So which is it? Do you want to be mad at him, or do you want to be close to him?

and we are waiting for your positives...no fair of you to sneak off to bed without giving them to us.

LL

[Zoo]

Another thread...I knew it !!

Pam you got some excellent edvice on the last page of the last thread. READ IT through several times! Commit it to memory, print it out...LL has bluntly told you what I've tried to for a week now Opt has told you what Shiny, Sage, me and so many others have been repeatedly saying.

You are making it way too hard by looking for hidden meanings and ulterior motives in everything that David tells you. Stop letting the nastiness of the past dictate the way that you and David interact with each other. I realize that it is probably impossible for any of us to let go of the past completely but (and correct me if I'm wrong ladies and gents) ALL of us who have been successful at DB'ing have made a concerted effort to push the past away to a little, obscure corner. When we did this we were able to begin working toward our goal one day at a time and begin reaping our rewards

I'm not trying to beat you up (well...maybe just a little ) but it seems to me that you AREN't using the tools that everyone here has given you. You ask for them and you use them for a little while but then it's like they get too heavy for you so you just toss them down and walk away from them When we ask WHY you stopped doing what was working you (and I'll probably catch He!! for this) give US an excuse (pms, tired,down,David didn't respond the way I wanted, etc). We all commiserate with you for those types of feelings...we all experience them at various times but they ARE excuses. Excuses can often be interpreted as a sign of laziness and/or fear.

I'm hoping that in your case it is fear...because if it is laziness then you are going to end up being your own downfall in this sitch. Db'ing (and I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS!) is WORK . Hard, painful,gut- wrenching, self-loathing, hateful, insane,mind-blowing WORK. Db'ing makes you examine yourself and learn things that you would prefer not to know about yourself. It makes you see yourself bareA$$ naked in front of a MAGNIFIED 3d-mirror...and too often points out all of the flaws that you have been denying YOU brought into the sitch as well. I think it is these flaws that are feeding your fear.

Those flaws aren't immutable in stone though. There is no law, written, physical or otherwise, that says those flaws are permanent and cannot be undone. The ONLY thing that can tell you that is YOU . Nothing that David can say or do for you, nothing that we can tell you, no amount of wand-waving in the world can make your fear disappear. It is self-induced and thus can only be self-ridden. In other words...you got to face your own fears and beat them with your own 2x4.

I have the feeling that you think/feel that if David comes back to you, embraces you with open arms and says I'm sorry, you were right, all of this was MY fault and I'll never do it again that everything will be fixed and life will go on it's merry way. Your right, it will...for all of about a few days, weeks or months. Then one day David will be in a bad mood or say something that you take the wrong way and that FEAR will come flooding back Tsunami force and take you careening back through every cheeseless tunnel and cause you to "do more of the same" and you won't just backslide a little bit...you will be all the way back to square one or worse.

What you perceive as the ONLY solution is actually only a quick fix. Until you address YOU and your fear, change and make the changes permanent, you will be running through the "cheeseless" maze you are currently in ad infinitum.

Again...if I am being too brutal I apologize. I think you are a fantastic woman who deserves only great things out of life and it bugs the he!! out of me when the main thing denying you those great things seems to me to be YOU yourself

You know what to do Pam You've started time and again with good results Don't let the difficulty of the work beat you at this. Don't let your FEAR beat you at this!!

I know you are thinking...that is all well and good but what about David's part in all this? What about the pain he caused me, the EA, the resentment, the sense of betrayal etc. Well, when you made the conscious decision to begin db'ing the A$$umption is that you want your S back badly enough to acknowledge those feeling but set them aside. Nothing says you can't feel them but you can't let them dictate your life nor deny you the happiness that you would prefer to have with your S. Again...this is something that only YOU can address and fix within you.

Simplified: You want a R/M with David...one that is better then the one you had before. This current broad goal is unobtainable for you at this point because you have yet to reach the smaller but more important goal of changing you. DB'ing 101: "interreactions in relationships are circular...your partner does something, you react,your partner reponds, you react...when things are spiraling out of control, there is something you can do other than try to convince your partner to change. You can interrupt the cycle by changing your actions."

I want your M to work for you Pam...we all believe that David wants this too. I KNOW you are waiting for David to say this himself but that isn't going to happen until you show him you have changed and the change is good and here to stay.

If I have offended ANYONE by this post that was not my intention. I care about Pam and want only the happiness she deserves to shower down on her in buckets

Zoo

[alaskangal]

I agree with many of your points. Pam, sweetheart, you need to look for solutions to these problems.

(((Pam)))) We love you and all want the best for you. Now, if depression, pms, whatever is causing you to be unable to db....What can you do about that? You need to find a solution! There are meds for PMS and Depression...or you can try alternative methods....the meditation is one Great step you have been taking. And Pam, get out of the house (don't move out) go do something with someone...something fun, something you love, something that will make you smile, and better yet, laugh!
You are responsible for yourself. You make yourself happy. You love yourself. You create your own reality!
Start focusing on you and really taking care of yourself...and you can and will achieve your heart's desires.

[totite]

Hi Pam. I just spent an hour reading your last two threads - and my head is spinning! They filled up quickly but had recurring themes throughout:

1. Take care of Pam's physical and mental health.
2. Focus of small goals.
3. Get a life outside of your home and computer.
4. Revisit the DB/DR principals.
5. Forget about focussing on CHL and focus on Pam.

Other things I can relate to are the feeling of being overwhelmed with household upkeep. Keep in mind that I am taking care of 3 young'ins and a house by myself. But I get a great sense of accomplishment in knowing that sine my H left I have learned to use the riding mower, cleared the brush from our garden, knocked down a wall, painted and decorated both boy's bedrooms, painted the family room, etc, etc, etc.

I made a pact with myself that I would get out of the chair, put down the books (one of my favorite things) and keep moving and doing. I could easily settle in to a chair and read, sleep or watch TV - but I can't let myself.

Develop a new habit of doing. It doesn't matter what you choose to do - just that you do something. Keeping busy is a wonderful remedy for keeping your mind off of your H, for generating some PMA and for checking things off the long-neglected to do list around the house.

I am definately checking out the flybabies thread - I am all over the idea of organizing. The one show that I do try to catch is a new one on TLC called Clean Sweep (of course I am cooking dinner and supervising homework while doing it - ). Not that I can do what they do, but seeing that other people have worse messes and are less organized than me is great for the PMA!

So Pam, my household goal this weekend is to start to organize and declutter the kid's playroom. What is yours? Can I challenge you to see if we can both accomplish them together?

Hope you are sleeping well, as you can see I really need to get to bed myself, but wanted to catch up with you!

(((((PAM))))). Just cuz I haven't posted, doesn't mean I'm not thinking of you!

[shinybear]

Good Morning, Pam...I figured after the last few posts a big, spine aligning hug was in order!!!


((((((((((((((((((PAM))))))))))))))))))))

Now start DOING this stuff..we KNOW you can!!!

Shiny

[alaskangal]

((((Pam))) One thing for your PMA today.........

Become your own favorite person...you are certainly one of the favorites around here!

[lostlove]

mornin'

just didn't feel right leaving you on pg 3.

I want to hear some positives today!!

LL

[psluke]

I'm actually working on them right now!

[psluke]

Positives:

1. It is a beautiful morning, the sun is shinning and the birds are singing!

2. I FEEL happy inside again.

3. I am likeable. I have lots of outside proof, otherwise you guys would have washed your hands of me long ago rather than still trying to beat some sense into my head!

4. I have lots of great folks giving both David and I advice to work on our marriage.

5. I did get something done in my kitchen last night.

6. I got a phone call from David at 11:30 last night. I was too woozy to make sense but I got to hear his voice.

7. JJ posted a cool idea on our joint site.

8. I had some great posts on my thread to read this morning.

9. I for once didn't take things TOO personally and appreciated Shiny's hug but wasn't a need for it like there is sometimes. I believe that is progress for me.

10. I DON'T have a court date sitting out there right now!!!!

11. David is posting on the bb, hopefully that means he is still looking at trying to save our M.

12. I don't have the feeling that OW is a big part of the picture right now. Yes, I'm sure she is still a part of the picture but I don't think she is a main part of the picture.

[sage]

I think (an ASSumption) that you are really personalizing this...maybe what I offered up...maybe what D. offered up on other posts...

Sage

Uh Oh I don't have a clue what you are telling me here.

The rest I think was a 2x4 but this part I'm not sure what you are saying?

---

Pam,

LL did a great job of explaing what I was trying to say.

Honestly? I felt really frustrated by your response to my post...dare I say it?...I felt invalidated

So...it appears that I personalized things too.

I just got the sense of a lot of resistance from you...to even hear what I said...not to agree with it but to just kind of take it in as "well, here's sage with another data point".

So...your reaction made me feel as though you were working with other thoughts in your head, too...the comments that you've made before about David's "sound of silence being a LL" comment, etc.

BTW -- I think that picking up another copy of DR is a great idea.

Sage