A letter from the mediator came yesterday saying that the papers are ready to sign. We just need to make the appointment.
I showed it to W this morning. I was waiting for that wish to appear im my head, that she's say something about holding off or how she didn't want to do this or can't we work it out. But that desire did not emerge.
So she read it, I took it back, and just said "we need to make the appointment" and turned around and walked away.
She was in a crabby mood because she's having nightmares about me being with other women.
So strange.
Don't you get a little bit of satisfaction from that?
Why's she having those nightmares? or how do you know she is?
Me: 35|WAW: 38|D: 6yo | http://tinyurl.com/2dxx7m6 Feb 2006, left, came back in two weeks Aug 2006, left again Apr 2007, filed for divorce Dec 2007, reunited Mar 2010, moved out, filed again
Started by saying she didn't sleep well because of nightmares. I asked her what about and she reluctantly told me. She actually dreamed that I was sleeping with an old high school friend of hers. Then she couldn't get back to sleep.
It wasn't satisfaction; it was more a sense of, I can't save you from this. It was kind of like that feeling you get when someone likes you more than you like them and you don't know what to say.
So, STBXW, or as I'm calling her now, the future former Mrs. Geronimo, was my ride today to a medical procedure where they had to put me out. On the way there, she said that she realized that she had missed me this week and it was good to spend time with me. She also commented that I wasn't freaking out over the procedure, and how calm I was, and that "you really are a different person."
Afterwards when we back got to the house, she ordered a pizza for us all, while we were eating, watching a movie, she kind of rested her leg against me, then said "Is that OK?"
I was seriously groggy, just kind of shrugged. Afterwards I fell asleep, she put a pillow over my head and covered me up. Rubbed her hands through my hair. All that kind of loving caretaking stuff. Again, I was mostly interested in just becoming unconcious.
You know I don't want to be rude to her, but I feel like I'm done with all that. It's been the same pattern this whole time. I'm grateful that she helped me today - but I can't honestly say, "I've missed you too" nor do I want to. I don't crave to connect with her, I don't long for her touch. I honestly barely noticed when her leg was touching me (of course I was recovering from sedation...)
I'm not trying or forcing myself to detach more. I just kind of am I guess. Don't have the compulsion to particiate in the push-pull anymore.
Started by saying she didn't sleep well because of nightmares. I asked her what about and she reluctantly told me. She actually dreamed that I was sleeping with an old high school friend of hers. Then she couldn't get back to sleep.
It wasn't satisfaction; it was more a sense of, I can't save you from this. It was kind of like that feeling you get when someone likes you more than you like them and you don't know what to say.
So, STBXW, or as I'm calling her now, the future former Mrs. Geronimo, was my ride today to a medical procedure where they had to put me out. On the way there, she said that she realized that she had missed me this week and it was good to spend time with me. She also commented that I wasn't freaking out over the procedure, and how calm I was, and that "you really are a different person."
Afterwards when we back got to the house, she ordered a pizza for us all, while we were eating, watching a movie, she kind of rested her leg against me, then said "Is that OK?"
I was seriously groggy, just kind of shrugged. Afterwards I fell asleep, she put a pillow over my head and covered me up. Rubbed her hands through my hair. All that kind of loving caretaking stuff. Again, I was mostly interested in just becoming unconcious.
You know I don't want to be rude to her, but I feel like I'm done with all that. It's been the same pattern this whole time. I'm grateful that she helped me today - but I can't honestly say, "I've missed you too" nor do I want to. I don't crave to connect with her, I don't long for her touch. I honestly barely noticed when her leg was touching me (of course I was recovering from sedation...)
I'm not trying or forcing myself to detach more. I just kind of am I guess. Don't have the compulsion to particiate in the push-pull anymore.
You just want "steady" and all the craziness gone, but its not going to happen. So you think she's going to do be stuck in this "push-pull" cycle?
You just want "steady" and all the craziness gone, but its not going to happen. So you think she's going to do be stuck in this "push-pull" cycle?
I don't know. But there's no push-pull if I don't participate. She is kind of stuck though.
And I guess there's that same question that brought me back to the board in January, that Karen and Bill keep putting out there - the possiblity that she'll change her mind. What then?
You just want "steady" and all the craziness gone, but its not going to happen. So you think she's going to do be stuck in this "push-pull" cycle?
I don't know. But there's no push-pull if I don't participate. She is kind of stuck though.
And I guess there's that same question that brought me back to the board in January, that Karen and Bill keep putting out there - the possiblity that she'll change her mind. What then?
I'd really have to work to convince myself.
I figured through my hardship is that any bad habits the spouse built up on the relationship with you, can get stripped off in future relationships with others. The spouse has to decide to release it. As you are aware, some of them get "better" at the stuff we don't like and get worse as they get older. They are not likely to release it with us because that boundary has been crossed so many times. We keep hoping that they release those activities and ways of dealing with us that put us on this board in the first place, doesn't seem like it happen.
I will say for the DB forum that the affair busting men and women seem to be having good success. You see without a boyfriend or girlfriend and stinging and realing from the pain of being dumped, they have to take a look around to look at reality. For many its obviously safer and more profitable to come home, for others they feel its a path of least resistance to stay out in the single game.
This stuff is hard, and that is putting it mildly.
Is there anyway you can "pop" her out of "push-pull" or the various games she play? Sometimes it can be pain or leverage to make it happen, real leverage and real pain - like a designed affair or designed situations, etc designed to wake the person up and help them into the reality or awareness you need them to be in.
I mean they shook our life up through their actions, perhaps we can shake their life up as a very last ditch effort.
Geronimo, what do you think she's getting out of push-pull? An temporary ego boost due to a feeling of control on you?
She has summed it up by saying "I can't have what I want." That is, she wants me, she loves me, but she doesn't feel like in our day-to-day marriage that I met her needs. I was preoccupied with work, I was distant, etc. I mean it's all more complicated than that, but let's use it as a first-order approximation.
We went through this before in 2003 and I changed, but she says the changes dissipated over the years.
So - she wants me, but is afraid that if she came back that it would be the same again. She is convinced that we have an unhealthy dynamic which she herself enables. And so to protect herself from being hurt she's forced herself to end the marriage. I think she sees very clearly that right now I'm the man she would want to be with, but does not believe that if she were to be with me I would continue to be that man. She thinks I'm healthier without her. And I suppose that she's healthier without me.
What is it that she gets? Some momentary piece of the relationship that she actually wants but will not commit to.
Is there any way to pop her out? I don't think I'm going to do anything directed at her right now. I'm going to continue to create a healthier life for me and my boys. Am I going to manufacture a scenario to reel her in? At this point, I really don't know what that would be. Even the things she responded to, didn't pull her in.
Here's the deal. She filed for divorce, THEN had the relationship with the OM. Now the OM is gone, and she hasn't come back. What was, let's say, a second-order effect. A symptom, not a cause.
She had said in therapy that if she came back for her it would be a "business decision"
She has been tempted to come back because: - She's scared of the financial situation - She's realized that she's just miserable in general, and if she's going to be miserable she might as well be miserable with the father of her children - She's scared of being lonely
So, right now I think the only thing to do is to make the best freaking life I can without her. And that's great just in general.
She's actually said that, if we're meant to be together, then let's get through the divorce and see if it happens "organically".
There are other things going on here too. I think that she has some self-esteem issues, and she's reached a point in life where it's important to her to stand on her own.
So, all that being said, I'm pretty confident we're not turning back. OK, so it's often said here that the D is just a piece of paper. What about the relationship? What if that re-formed in some way?
Would I want that? Well... Do I trust her? No. Do I need her? No. Do I love her? Yes. Do I want my boys raised in an intact family? Yes. Do I think she's messed up and better left alone? Probably. Can I make a fantastic life without her? Yes. Do I really want to put up with her? No. Do I value marriage and family? Yes. DO I WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN in a couple of years? No.
I've made a number of last-ditch efforts already. I mean seriously, it has been CRAZY.
I got her to go to Retrouvaille, and within two weeks of that she consumated her relationship with OM. I confronted her on her lies about it, and she admitted it all. In response I walked away, told her in definitive terms I was done, I was no longer trying, she was no longer my wife. I said that. I gave her my ring back. I started seeing someone, and it absolutely tore her apart - she was surprised by the magnitude of her response to that. I moved out. Thanksgiving and Christmas we spent together as a family and it was very tense... then New Years we spent together (without the kids) and it was good, and in January it was like we were dating again. And I thought... maybe... and we started going to therapy - and then I stayed the weekend, over which we were intimate a number of times, then it turned out that it was just because she was afraid I'd stop paying the bills. Yeah, that was hard to take.
We went to mediation to talk about a custody plan and support agreement, and she starting talking about pushing off the divorce... and I thought maybe... but no, she changed her mind on that. So we worked out the divorce settlement. And the she talked about delaying signing the papers... but no, she changed her mind on that too. Somewhere in there we had sex again too.
I'm tired of participating.
OK it's 1:00 AM and I need to go to bed. Hopefully this made some sense.
I think it's about a distancer/pursuit thing for your W. Every time you distance yourself from her she becomes more interested in you. You both seem to fall into that kind of dynamic over and over. You're sounding strong and healthier lately though which is good.
I 100% believe the WAS is lucky if reconciliation happens at some point. I think the LBS are often better off without the WAS. Most WAS seem to have issues with addiction, immaturity, etc. I know that's an anti-DB thought, and I still believe in reconcilation if possible, but if not, LBS will often prob. lead a happier, peaceful, less-drama filled life.
