I've been thinking of my W as a caged zoo animal. She's an animal that wants to be out in the world, and find out and be who she is. Living with me, she perceives that she lives in a cage. I think about what Naej wrote, about my wanting her to be home for me, but not changing in the ways needed to keep her home.
In Mars @ Venus, John Gray talks about how couples treat the other as an extension of themselves, versus who they are and what they need. I don't think I'm exactly the Mars type, as I need to add more masculine behaviors to my feminine strengths. I think I need to educate myself on how to be in a relationship with a woman, because I'm still not passing that class.
I can and hopefully will set limits if she crosses boundaries again, but I still need to work on my end of things.
I also keep thinking about how this is Tough Grace, in that I need to not let myself react to negative emotions. In the The Third Jesus by Deepak Chopra, he quotes from the Gospels, "...love your enemies and those who persecute you." My capacity to hold onto love will serve as the foundation for moving forward, versus letting the situation crash and burn because I didn't have the courage and willingness to put in the effort to change and grow.
I don't want to end a M as a coward.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I am Sorry to read what happened. I just read your posts as I have been out of town at a conference. I see that your W is giving you quite a list of things she needs from you but you have been much more reserved about what you want. Maybe you need to give it to her. Lay all cards on the table so to speak. Maybe you have and I am missing something. W seems to think that you have a lot of faults. I think she really needs to look in the mirror. I do agree with Mat however that the intimacy issue maybe at the forefront of her recent actions.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Jak, The only thing I can think of in terms of W that needs to change is infidelity. Everything else can be tolerated or worked-thru. The other thing I need is to continue my ballroom dancing interest, and want to continue to take lessons and go out dancing besides Salsa at least weekly. I want to hold onto that for myself.
The truth will reveal itself in time. I will work at what I think I need to, and if the infidelity persists, will deem the situation unworkable. I'm hoping that increased companionship, and moving from a roommate to a partner mindset will help move us forward.
I sent her an email today discussing options that I would consider. I want to take the night off from Salsa. I get weary of Salsa every Friday night.
I may start giving her first option during the week regarding activities we do together, rather than make plans for myself to have a quiet evening at home. Again, a shift from roommate to partner mindset.
We'll see if these changes can increase the connection enough to prevent her from being wayward.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
This may be just me and not all women but if as your wife I was behaving as she does I would be wanting to see some anger some jealousy some sign that I belonged to you,that you wanted me and in no way shape or form would you put up with sharing.
To me she is screaming out for you to show some passion and I don't just mean in the bedroom. She feels neglected,uncared for and unloved. Granted she could say all this verbally but maybe she feels driven to express that in other ways because for years she has been or thinks she has been telling you this.
BINGO!
I have been reading your posts for a few years now and it really does seem like you need to do something drastic. You feel like you are moving in some direction, and you are but by the time you actually arrive at some substantial change, you will be 85 years old.
Considering the DB concept of "do something different", honestly my friend, you have been doing flavors of the same thing for as long as I have been with you.
Have you ever considered asking some of the hardliners like RobX or Gucci or Puppy (Puppy might be good for you, he as actually starting to seem like a moderate), and formulating a new drastically different plan?
Reading yet another book and taking yet another style of dance lesson has clearly proven not to be the answer. It would appear, your wife is screaming, dieing, crying for a manly, passionate man. If you MUST read yet another book, how about reading, No More Mr Nice Guy or Getting Your Nuts Back. I say this not in jest or to scold, but as an objective observer, this is what your wife appears to wife. Had you beat her "guest" to a pulp and strongly reprimanded her. I suspect she would have been astounded, revolted and utterly attracted all at once.
Good luck no matter what you do.
Me 44 She 46 S13 D9 M18 T23 3 years DB'ing Successfully busted
OH CL, I am sorry but this is nowhere near enough. It could be how I have interpreted what you have written but it sounds so condescending and more of the same."I sent her an email today discussing options that I would consider " I want to take the night off from Salsa. "I may start giving her first option during the week" This is not a partnership mindset. On the one hand I would say maybe you just need to get a life and leave her to do as she chooses. That is more or less whats happening now I guess apart from the dancing classes. BUT if you truly want to rebuild your marriage and the quote you made about suffering and loving most those who deserve it least( sorry can't quite remember it correctly) seemed to suggest you did, (I found that condescending to)sorry. All this email suggests is that you may have time to fit her in. For now you are going to have to get so much better and so much quicker at putting her needs first in this partnership you talk about, without becoming her lapdog. She needs loving in every shape and form. Praise were you can. Talk of your love for her,your longings,your inner hopes. IDK anything but that you are weary of the salsa. This is your wife,the woman you loved enough to choose to be your lifelong companion, lover and friend. Go back to what you felt then,all inhibitions out the window,all conservatism out too. I know how hard this is for you, but this may be your last chance to save the marriage,what have you got to lose,so what if its way out of your comfort zone,embarrasing and too emotional. Do it. No more of the cold, calculating and patronising emails. When all this goes pearshaped, you have the rest of your life to have quiet nights in planning and organising to the nth degree your weeks classes. Take this as a thunderbolt, sent with love.
DNO, I don't want to be a hardliner, however I do recognize the need for greater assertiveness, expressiveness, and giving. There must be a way to incorporate what you're describing that fits into my way of looking at things.
I think I need to expand my definition of love to include insisting that any people of poor character not be allowed to threaten my M. I've been a failure at love. I've been civil, and have not done any intentional harm to the M, (more like neglect), but have not truly loved her. This is where I need to grow.
It's understandable when there is a WAS, that GAL is an option many choose to improve and reclaim themselves. However, when Piecing occurs it's not fair to expect my W to accept mostly the status quo.
Don't underestimate the impact the dance lessons have had. My W sees me in a different way, because of the performance team. I think without them, there would be too much distance, rather than the potential I have to work with. I think the time is ripening for significant change. I can feel it.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Naej, I can understand why you wouldn't trust that I'm going to change in the ways needed. I need to grow in love. I think that's the lesson to learn from this.
I think I get it. I think I'm ready. Learning to love my W, even with the betrayal, distance, problems, estrangement, and history will be a significant stretch for me. It's easier to avoid, distance, be civil, procrastinate, blame, be passive, and judge.
She and I went out to lunch with a couple after dance class today. Being out in the world as a partner with my W (even though we have problems) would be doing something different, rather than waiting for things to be in a better place. Maybe if I act like a H (another DB technique), in spite of my feelings, she may start to act more like a W. There are no other options at this time.
It's odd. We actually have a had a great week together. She is so happy when we're out in the world being social with interesting people.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
HI CL, "Maybe if I act like a H (another DB technique), in spite of my feelings, she may start to act more like a W. There are no other options at this time.
It's odd. We actually have a had a great week together. She is so happy when we're out in the world being social with interesting people."
I like this. Hope your head gets better soon from all the 2x4's you have taken-lol. Just remember faint hard never won fair lady, and no one said it was going to be easy but you said it was easier to avoid etc, and now I think you are "getting it". I am smiling. Take care.
After a busy day of buying a mother's day gift, Hustle practice, lunch with classmates, taking the dog to the vet, Salsa dancing, dance practice at home, helping to furnish her mother's new apartment, my W said that she "loves our new life." I was bewildered given the event of a week ago. I asked her what she meant. She again referred to the new people we've been meeting due to our dance performance team.
She is under the impression that the couple we went to lunch with would like to vacation with us in Puerto Rico this summer. They want to vacation with a dancing couple. My W is thrilled about this.
I'm finding myself having regrets for the mistakes, lack of maturity, and commitment to the M I've had over the years.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Ok bear with me on this, your mind is a powerful thing. Now I am no expert but I have been learning some stuff. Playing the devils advocate here... What if your wife is doing these things like “sleeping elsewhere” to get a point across to you? Maybe she is trying to jolt YOU into intimacy? The truths that we believe are what our mind tells us are the truth. Our minds do not know what reality is. just what we think is reality. I for one believed that my wife did not want me to touch her. I believed the truth was that she hated my touch. So my mind took this as the truth and I did not touch her. Does she not like my touch? I really don’t know, she has not said so but that is what I believed to be the truth. So I have been “re-programming” my mind. I am rejecting my belief in reality and substituting it with a reality on my own. One where if I feel like touching my wife I will. If I want to give her a kiss I will. If I want her to give me a kiss I will tell her... (Not ask but tell her). Since I have been doing this things have been getting better and better between my wife and I. I am taking control. If I feel like doing something I do it without fear of making her mad. If I make her mad... Oh well… but at least I tried what I wanted to do. Without trying I would have only believed it would make her mad. And I will tell you one other thing… She has NOT gotten mad yet. So that means all the advances that I was not doing because I “Believed the truth was” that she did not want me to do them would not have happened if I stuck with what I “Thought was the truth” Did I lose ya yet? I know you have fears of rejection in the area of intimacy. But why? What is the worst thing that could happen? Your Wife wants a divorce? You already stated you would be fine with it if that is what she wanted… CL you know that “emotions” are strong. It is not memories that hurt but the emotions behind them. What I am learning to do is Trick my memories. Whenever I am about to try something to reconnect with my wife I bring back a really good memory. I instantly get a smile on my face. (To be honest with ya this memory does not involve my wife but does involve a woman I dated) Now I am NOT pretending that my wife is that woman. I have the picture of my wife in my brain… but I use the emotions I was “feeling” from that other moment with that other person. This is kind of hard to explain. SO big guy what I want you to do right now...Think back to some time when you were dancing and did this incredible move. And after how people came up to you and said ‘WOW CL that was great”...ok so do you have one of those memories pictured in your mind? Are you feeling that Great emotion? Now try not to smile…..see you can’t do it… Ok so think about how you felt after that great dance move….Feel the emotion…..now Picture in your mind, you and your wife being intimate but FEEL the emotion from the dance……..GO CL GO
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
