What does this mean?- the WH's regrets?

[pearlharbr]

This is why I believe it's important to know if H is having an affair.

If there isn't OW then perhaps it's a good idea to change the dynamics and see what happens.

If H has OW then you are enabling his cake eating. Nothing will change because he is getting the best of both worlds--a good time with OW with no responsibilities and friendship with you with no responsibilities. You put yourself in limbo and then six months to a year later (or longer) wonder why you're still in the same place.

[newmama]

Or I could just look at it objectively and say no matter what he is, it's better to have a lighter correspondence rather than a serious one.

How would this change affect our dealing with the baby? Our potential divorce proceedings?

Would he take it that I want to be 'friends' and contact me more while staying far away from commitment? Is that okay for me? Is that getting closer to piecing? And what if he has an OW? Would he just think that I was so "last year"?

lol Gatsby about the "last year" comment!! haha! It's like this- as long as you have no expectations, and aren't hoping for something to come out of it, then do what you want. It is better to treat others decently than not, and since you will be stuck with him as the father of your child, why not be civil. It's just that if you are hoping it will make him come around, that is the wrong reason.

Will he think you are being friendly and turning around to be "ok" with the situation? Possibly. But one random email wouldn't be enough to give this impression- your behavior patterns over time would.

If H has OW then you are enabling his cake eating. Nothing will change because he is getting the best of both worlds--a good time with OW with no responsibilities and friendship with you with no responsibilities. You put yourself in limbo and then six months to a year later (or longer) wonder why you're still in the same place.

Yeah- she's right that there is a greater chance of prolonging the A if there is one if you allow cake eating. When you feel ready to find out if he has an OW then do some snooping. You will know when you are ready- I remember not wanting to know if WH had gone underground after he said he ended the A in Jan 09. But then when March rolled around, my body was tingling and aching and my mind wouldn't stop thinking of it and I was ready to find out.

[avermont]

Whoa, Gatsby, where did you find that dismissive-avoidant thing?
Describes me to a T!

I will bring it to my C.

Except--when the bomb hit-ALL my defenses crumbled at once and cool detachment was not in the picture.

So being a dismissive-avoidant--this is a thing to know about oneself, and change if this behavior is causing difficulty in your life?

Sorry--I clearly haven't made much progress in C--I have mostly been weeping and processing--now it is time to look at the roots of me and see what's there.

Sorry for the thread-jack--this just caught my eye.

[newmama]

from my own archives:

Why I’m so Focused on Determining of There’s an Affair Going On:

This is precisely why I'm so "hung up on" whether or not there is an affair going on when I advise people. Because if there IS, you're going to get FALSE SIGNALS in terms of what he says he wants, whether or not he likes/loves what you're doing in terms of meeting his needs, speaking his love language(s), etc. DBing is all about "doing what works," but in this case (infidelity), you're trying to judge things based on SMOKE and FOG and DECEIT.

I advise people to aggressively determine -- and then bust-up, if there is one -- whether or not there's an affair going on, while SIMULTANEOUSLY adjusting their own behavior ("be the better option"/"shine a light back towards the marriage") -- but -- and THIS IS IMPORTANT -- to make your self-improvements based on two things:

1) Your OWN self-analysis and introspection about what you legitimately feel are your shortcomings, and what you need to work on, to be a better partner for this person, or -- if it doesn't work out -- someone else down the road; and

2) Your spouse's pre-affair marital complaints. Too many people take their spouse's CURRENT complaints as their input for self-improvement, and it's almost always just fogged-out re-writing of marital history bullchit. One example of this would be backing off on anything that their wayward spouse characterizes as being "controlling," when, in fact, you've actually been more passive/supplicating/doormattish, if anything, in the marriage.[/b]

I hope that helps. It all starts with verifying the truth of what's REALLY going on.

Puppy

just sharing!

[Babydoll]

Hey Gatsby,

I am just stating my opion (obviously) but i dont think its harmful if you send him a friendly-no expectations email... better to be friendly than not. I understand the whole cake eating thing, but at the same time, why not make things between you somewhat positive. Doesnt mean you are asking him to be your friend... or saying you will support his A. Sorry, maybe those who know better about H's and A's have better reasoning.

I have a hard time with do I act like myself and be friendly or do I become bitter and go against my own morals and personality just to teach H a lesson. I personally prefer the first option, although I get tempted to do the latter at times.

I think as NM said, just dont expect anything back but a lighthearted response. and she has good points about keeping things civil since he is the baby's father.

Now if only MWD wrote a chapter about DBing when PG? Hmmm?

[gatsby11]

That would be a great chapter, BD!

So I was all ready to just click off the email, and I decided to check this first. I have a huge reckless streak (it's how WH and I joined the Peace Corps a few years ago!), and I definitely enjoy just the thrill of doing something without thinking.

I'm holding off for right now because I am not 100% sure I'm doing it for the right reason. I do care a little how he responds. If he doesn't write anything back, I'm fine with that. Actually, I prefer that the best. If he writes back a joke line, then I'll be obsessed with it and hopes would jump up. If he writes back "f-off," then. . . ho boy. (I don't think he'd do that, tho.)

Maybe I could add a line "No need to reply!"

About a possible A-- I really don't even know how to snoop to find out. I really don't. I could contact his friend and ask his friend, but that would get back to him. I couldn't follow him without him recognizing my (our!) car. I don't know any passwords or how to hack into facebook accounts. . . I guess I do have one mutual friend with him and I could get on her account and look at his page. That makes me vulnerable, though, and very very prone to obsession/anger when I see his life without me. And since we do have 20 mutual friends, I don't know how obvious he would make anything. (He's still a fb friend with my brother!)

So I don't really want to know, and I also don't think that I can know at this point. Any actions I take will be pure risk.

All right. I like the idea of sending off the message now because I'm going home and I won't get any replies (if any) until tomorrow morning. Second, I'm sooo busy at work that I don't have enough time to think about it in the morning. Third, since testing is happening again, I have time to think (if I need to) and I can't check my email again. And last, he has his therapy on Fridays and I want him to be able to process it with his therapist. His therapist originally recommended emergency counseling to us and is helping WH with baby stuff (hence him sending the gifts and wanting us to have a "family day") so I'm going to trust his therapist's guidance for now.

So I've just talked myself into it. If my hopes get up too much, I will deal with that. I guess bottom line is I feel I need to lead us into more lighthearted territory.

I'll let you know what happens.

[pearlharbr]

Babydoll and Gatsby, I respectfully disagree.

Allowing cake eating IS harmful to the situation if there is OW. The choices are not only being friendly or being bitter. Not initiating contact and being lovingly detached do not fall into that either/or scenario.

Gatsby--you want to do this because it will make you feel better. Remember that DBing, at its heart, is counterintuitive. You already have expectations of how you want this to play out. Expectations are not good. It is also controlling behavior. You want to control what H discusses with his IC.

You are choosing to ignore the possibility of OW. That's your choice to make. Just do it knowing that sticking your head in the sand won't solve anything. I've read what it's done to others and it isn't pretty. All of them said afterwards they wish they had faced it earlier because they feel they wasted a lot of time and effort and set themselves up for bigger heartache.

[newmama]

Gatsby, if you want ideas for snooping ask and believe me, we will help you. Did you get anything out of Puppy's post that I quoted?

Here is another way of thinking about how you act with your H...
simple. Don't do anything you would regret, don't burn bridges, don't chase or pursue or beg or plead. So seriously, who cares if you send him a joke email right? It is not pursuing or looking desperate. It may send him mixed signals as to whether you want to be friends or not. But if you are clear with boundaries then who cares, right?

[gatsby11]

That's kinda what I think, NM. I don't plan on having a relationship start from this. I hope to change the mood.

That said, it is true that I have some expectations. PH, that's so interesting about controlling what he says with C! I suppose it's true, really. . .

I do definitely agree that I'm doing this to feel better. And. . . because I'm bored? I'm not technically bored because I'm working so much, but I just feel restless, I guess.

I don't think I'm ignoring the possibility of OW. It just doesn't matter. I guess I'm not playing this game to win. I'm just playing somewhat haphazardly. I don't actually think the outcome will be any different-- I'll just be more. . . obsessive if I actually "play to win". This is getting philosophical and abstract, which I like of course.

Last, I definitely read what Puppy wrote, NM. Good argument. . . just not sure how. . . I think the word is "obsessive". . . I want to be about it all. (How obsessive am I now on a scale of 1-10? Probably a 5. I feel like snooping and then trying to bust an A and being so tactical puts me up to an 8 or 9!)

Please break this argument apart, etc etc. It's fun. Don't ya think? I'm being serious! Plus, it can be really interesting to hear other perspectives. I never thought of myself as controlling, but that has got to be a little bit true with the therapy stuff!

It just seems that there are such contradictory theories to win back the WAS and at the end of the day, I just want to be happy.

[gatsby11]

Avermont, I love the thread-jack!

I just googled. "Attachment theory" and then "dismissive avoidant" and then "attachment parenting." Still need to research a bit more. But yeah, I definitely want to talk about it in C. Glad to know you could find it here!

Maybe dismissive avoidant runs in my last post? I don't know, I seem pretty "dismissive" and others will call me "avoidant"!

Well, I should go to bed. Too much thinking for tonight. . .