5 weeks left to DB - need help with my plan

[Piano]

Been thinkin'....

A lot of the advice I have recieved here and from friends, has been tell WAH to take a hike & only come back when he's ready to step up to the plate and behave like a hub and a father. And I've glady followed it since I think it has great merits.

Depending on the sitch.

I am beginning to see potential holes in this approach as related to my sitch.

While I beat WAH up with words, and tell him to stay away cos he's useless etc, how CAN he take the necessary steps to becoming a father to a newborn? I'm not letting him. I'm excluding him.

The activities of Exposure and fighting the WAS's affair, are exhausting war-like activities. While they are great for your indidual self-esteem & hopefully getting OW out the way faster, they don't necessarily get the WAH back into the fold fast enough. In this case: in time for the birth and early bonding with baby.

Wouldn't Taking the High Rd, Letting Go. Accepting. GALing achieve things faster in this respect? I can stop blocking him immediately. I don't have to wait for the A to be over.

I am thinking about Newmama here (I hope you don't mind, NM!)... From what I gather, NM has taken the High Rd. Okay, her H is still wayward and things haven't worked out to this date as we would hope, but that doesn't mean it wont, or that it can't for others. NM has allowed her H to co-parent despite his running off, and it seems he's quite good at being a Dad (tell me if I am wrong in any of this, NM!).

Newmama and I both have WAH's in affairs, but my WAH's OW is on the other side of the world, so she's "virtual" for the moment and I reckon it has a better chance of dying. Yes, distance can be a powerful motivator for romantic love, but at some point it's gotta become a drag. Besides, for them, an air ticket to see each other would cost minimum $2000 return. We're talking crossing the world, crossing language barriers, VISA problems..not hopping over to the next State or suburb.

Second point I'd like to make using NMs stich again, as well as some of the other gals' sitches... These men seem to know someting about parenting and fatherhood already. As in, they have had fathers, they kind of know what's involved.

Mine doesn't know it from first hand experience. He's totally remedial in this respect. I think this means he's someone who does need his hand held to become a father... Because he's never had the education. He has no CLUE what it means.

If I shut out a person who doesn't know what fathering is...and don't give him the space to learn...how will he ever know he can do it and to be not fearful of it?

At the end of the day I might not get my M back, but my child might get a father.

I guess with only weeks (days? please make it weeks!) to go until the baby arrives, new questions, possibly new priorites are emerging.

Or perhpas it's just that I need to keep and eye on things, be patient, and if I see something ain't working, then change it

[Piano]

From my little stash of archived quotes, one of my fave posts ever. It's by RobX.

I can't count how many situations I've read in these various forum posts where the LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you. You are all very "unique" in this respect. You all do this or will do this in your own "unique" ways.

Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.

Rebuild yourself, change yourself for you first. Become a better person for you. Reclaim your individuality. You were an individual before you were a part of this relationship with your WAS. It was your individuality that made you attractive, learn what it is to become you again, enjoy being you, continue pressing forward, personal development is a lifelong process, don't be lazy with yourself, be the best you that you can be.

The repair process is slow, anyone preaching a quick fix does not know what they're talking about.

There are also many methods to possibly accomplish the herculean task of repairing your marriage, "busting your divorce". Many of us will have many ideas on what you can do to accomplish this task. None are guaranteed to work, remember there are no guarantees. But if you fail to act, you are acting to fail and will achieve those results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. So one piece of advice that will be common to all of you, do things differently from what you are doing now and please stop whining and saying "I can't do this", "I can't do that", it's that same attitude that got you into this mess to begin with - you can do it, you just don't want to do it and it's that same attitude that prompted your WAS to leave you.

[any chance?]

Thank you for that quote. Put a ray of hopeful thoughtfulness into a grey day.

I think the High Road is the way to go. Need to combat the feelings that want us in the trenches fighting. The High Road is better for us, and has a higher probability of someday demonstrating WAS made a mistake.

Good luck.

[newmama]

Piano, you are right that my WH has co parented well and bonded. I don't think he knew how to be a dad by learning from his dads, considering the broken childhood he had from his parents' divorce.

My point is that your H can still "learn" because it is part instinct, part learning from observing you, the mother.

Yes, do what works, like RobX stated....in my case, I thought I was getting some results and had a chance. But he would act nicer and text more and do stuff around the house and I noticed when he was especially nice, something bad followed. Also he has been consistently doing those things except texting (always about S) a little more sometimes and not others. So after 6-9 months of the same behaviors but not ending the A or not wanting to reconcile, it is time for something different- others wanted me to do it before (not let him come to the house) but I wasn't ready and I didn't want OW to get to see S more than one night per week.

I tell you all of this because although a couple weeks might be premature (in RobX's example), if your H is acting the same for months and months and months (like Mindfull and my WH) then there is a point when you should do something different...not more of the same. So keep that in mind. But you have only just begun!


The other thing is that all the vets advocate a hard stance when an A is involved, based on what they have seen. I am of the belief that we all will do things when we are ready and should do it to the fullest and best (whatever IT is) to show consistency on our side. So if that is being kind and loving, do it consistently. If it is NC, do it consistently. Then wait, GAL, and monitor results. And although all of our sitches have many common elements, ultimately they are different.

[Babydoll]

Piano,

I am trying to treat my H like a MLCer, not sure if you read my thread. As it has the best response for my sitch. i think whether MLC is the case or not, it teaches us to tackle the problem another way, and as MWD says in her books in so many ways, we need to tweak it to work for our own sitch.

Why not ask him for help... sometimes we just need to ask for help! and why not try another approach... one at the very least that would allow your child to have a father... sometimes i think who is H to make such a huge impact in my life and turn me down a different road than what we planned... who gave him that god given right?!?!? and then i think... am i not doing the same if I push H away and out of the baby's life? Am i making a decision that will affect lives and who am I to do so?

Although... boundaries must always be present!

[JacT]

piano, its a difficult one because the birth of your baby is something you can never give him back.Does he want to be there? I feel if he does it, maybe the awakening he needs to get him to come around.It can often be something major that brings these men out of the fog.If he does and you want him there, you need to be prepared that he has found the life he wants, but he wants to be a father to his child.
I wouldnt want to deny that to any spouse, if its what they want.
My H was a truly wonderful father and he hasnt seen his girls for 7 months.The girls choice and I respect that.
You can be good parents and not be together but thats you choice babes..a hard one a really hard one.
This is one you have to go with what you feel.Dont put your baby in the middle,if he wants you to be a family, trust be seeing the birth of his child will bring that alive in him.
((((Hugs))))

[Kimmie Lee]

From my little stash of archived quotes, one of my fave posts ever. It's by RobX.

I can't count how many situations I've read in these various forum posts where the LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you. You are all very "unique" in this respect. You all do this or will do this in your own "unique" ways.

Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.

Rebuild yourself, change yourself for you first. Become a better person for you. Reclaim your individuality. You were an individual before you were a part of this relationship with your WAS. It was your individuality that made you attractive, learn what it is to become you again, enjoy being you, continue pressing forward, personal development is a lifelong process, don't be lazy with yourself, be the best you that you can be.

The repair process is slow, anyone preaching a quick fix does not know what they're talking about.

There are also many methods to possibly accomplish the herculean task of repairing your marriage, "busting your divorce". Many of us will have many ideas on what you can do to accomplish this task. None are guaranteed to work, remember there are no guarantees. But if you fail to act, you are acting to fail and will achieve those results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. So one piece of advice that will be common to all of you, do things differently from what you are doing now and please stop whining and saying "I can't do this", "I can't do that", it's that same attitude that got you into this mess to begin with - you can do it, you just don't want to do it and it's that same attitude that prompted your WAS to leave you.

Yeah, but to me, this is cake-eating for the WAS and teeny, tiny crumbs for the LBS.

Ick!

[Piano]

hang on, let me put the whole post in.. that was only a grab.

here t'is in full:
Everyday users on this forum will post an unknown number of replies & questions dealing with their relationships & marriages and every post boils down to some variation of...

"What should I do? I've read the other threads on this forum but my situation is unique..."

Bottom line, nothing in this world is new anymore. As much as you think your situation is unique, it really is a variation of quite a few common themes that you see posted & replied to regularly in these forums.

You may have heard the term, "WAS script".
Well "script" implies that the WAS (man or woman) will say & do things that are common for a person that wants to leave a relationship/marriage. My personal favorite is "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore". Impressive that with so many unique marital situations that this particular statement re-occurs on a regular basis.

What else is not unique in many of your situations: TIME.
In most if not all of your respective situations, it has taken months and more probably years for your relationships to get to to their current status. It took alot of time to get to where you are, it took alot of time for the damage to accumulate to a point where your spouse made a decision to leave the relationship and you all have to realize that it's going to take a long time to get your relationship back if that's even a possibility.

Guarantees... there are none. Know this. Accept this.
You can do everything right in your current journey of busting your divorce and still not get your spouse back. There are no guarantees in life. No one knows what tomorrow will bring and you can't predict or control the future. But.... (and you know I like big buts) you all have a chance. As long as your heart beats, as long as you have a spring in your step, a smile on your face and the willingness to improve yourself and be the kind of spouse you would want to have (change begins & ends with the person you stare at in the mirror everyday) then you have a chance, a very good chance - it's not a guarantee but it's better than nothing at all.

You all come here looking for a solution. Years of marital problems, personal neglect, spousal neglect along with countless other issues and you all come here looking for a solution because your spouse has told you in one way or another "I've had enough and I don't want this marriage anymore."

This happened to all of you in one way or another and I don't care how "unique" your situation is, your spouse finally communicated to you in person that they wanted to leave you or they had an affair with another person which pretty much indicates the same thing.

So what prompted you to action? Crisis, fear of loss. It was only when you were faced with losing something that you finally decided to act.

Regardless of how "blind" you might have been during the marriage/relationship, you all had some clues & indicators that your spouse wasn't happy. You just thought you would plug along as you have been doing, thinking that your spouses would get out of their funk eventually and just be loving & caring. Maybe some of you felt that the other spouse had to change because they had "changed" into someone you didn't recognize anymore and you weren't going to fix anything until they fixed it, it was their responsibility, their fault, since they are married, they had an obligation to do something as well. Yes this is all very "unique".

Here is also something "unique".... you all want an answer NOW.
How do I do this? How do I respond when they do this? What is my next move? Should I do this and employ this tactic? What do I say when they do this? My personal favorite: How do I GAL when they've moved away and won't even notice my changes?

Yes you're all very "unique".

You all want to fix your relationships now, something that is also "unique". I want results now, I NEED RESULTS NOW! Read those words, think about the times that you yourself may have even said those things or something similar or even just thought about it. Reflect on how needy you've become, how insecure you've become, how unattractive that behavior really is: ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!

I've said it before, consumerism isn't just alive & well at the shopping malls. It's alive & well in your relationships. I want something new, improved, better, faster, stronger, and I want it NOW! It took years to create the problems that you are a part of but you all want a fix now. The microwave isn't fast enough, the car isn't fast enough, high speed internet isn't fast enough, the computer definitely isn't fast enough and there aren't enough hours in the day. Do any of you recognize the recurring theme here? You all want what you want and you all want it NOW!

Well your marriage isn't a microwave dinner and you aren't going to be able to nuke it and make it ready in 30 seconds. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can start doing the real work which takes time, effort, consistency of action (which builds trust) and the willingness to do things that you haven't done before, something that the "old" you wouldn't have done because the "old" you was boring and not willing to adapt & change.

You want to be efficient at cooking dinner, go for it.
You want to be efficient at work, go for it.
You want to be efficient at doing the laundry and taking care of your homes, go for it.

When it comes to your relationships and repairing the damage that took years to build up and destroy your marriages, there is no 30 second nuke button to hit. The repair process takes time, it takes a long time to heal a heart, it takes a long time to rebuild trust, it takes a long time to fix a relationship because it took a long time to break it.

This is a common fact for you all of you. This process will take time, alot of time. Trying to implement a quick fix will actually slow down your progress - that is the only guarantee I can provide to all of you. Trying to force your relationship to heal at a quicker pace will cause more damage. You will inevitably reveal to your spouse how selfish you are and that the only reason you want to recover this relationship is for you and not for them and they will see through that.

The "BS-meter", all of your WAS's are equipped with this piece of equipment, if you're not sincere in your efforts they will be able to tell and it will erase any progress you've made and even set you back a few steps.

Slow is fast, Fast is slow - tattoo this to your foreheads if you can't remember it.

I can't count how many situations I've read in these various forum posts where the LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you. You are all very "unique" in this respect. You all do this or will do this in your own "unique" ways.

Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.

Rebuild yourself, change yourself for you first. Become a better person for you. Reclaim your individuality. You were an individual before you were a part of this relationship with your WAS. It was your individuality that made you attractive, learn what it is to become you again, enjoy being you, continue pressing forward, personal development is a lifelong process, don't be lazy with yourself, be the best you that you can be.

The repair process is slow, anyone preaching a quick fix does not know what they're talking about.

There are also many methods to possibly accomplish the herculean task of repairing your marriage, "busting your divorce". Many of us will have many ideas on what you can do to accomplish this task. None are guaranteed to work, remember there are no guarantees. But if you fail to act, you are acting to fail and will achieve those results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. So one piece of advice that will be common to all of you, do things differently from what you are doing now and please stop whining and saying "I can't do this", "I can't do that", it's that same attitude that got you into this mess to begin with - you can do it, you just don't want to do it and it's that same attitude that prompted your WAS to leave you.

You all have questions, you all want advice, you all have pain, you all claim to love your spouses but your past actions with them might indicate otherwise, you all want your spouses back - and yet you all claim to have "unique" situations.

Give yourself the time to find those answers to those questions, give yourself time to improve yourself for you first and then your children, don't change for your spouse - that is definitely the wrong thing to do, remember the "BS-meter" that I mentioned previously. Give yourself time to heal from your pain, admit to yourself that if your spouse has hurt you, they may not be able to do anything to rectify that with you, you in the end have the ability to forgive them for what they may have done, that is within your control and that is your choice. Allow them the same courtesy, to heal within their own amount of time, allow them the choice of forgiving you and realize that no one owes you anything.

If you pray to GOD (and if you don't maybe you should but then again, that is YOUR choice), pray for CLARITY so that you have a clear mind that your vision is restored so that you can see clearly enough to know what you want and know what you have to do. Pray for the CONFIDENCE to take action on the choices you make and pray for WISDOM to choose wisely.

Stop praying for a quick fix to your problems, it doesn't exist.
There is no QUICK SOLUTION.

And if you want to truly be "UNIQUE", start by doing things that you normally wouldn't do, start by letting go of the need to control others and realize that you can only control your thoughts & actions. Respect your WAS's decision to leave you, you gave them reason to do so, if you want them back you will need to give them a reason to come back and that doesn't mean calling them and making them feel guilty for their actions. You want the reason they come back to you to be because they want to be with you and you can only promote that kind of feeling in others by making changes in yourself that would allow that kind of environment to exist and know that the changes you make in yourself aren't being done for your spouse, they're being done because you ultimately want to live a great life and you realize how you were living before wasn't great.

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you and especially those of you that feel like doormats in your current situations: Grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself. It’s impossible to truly love yourself & draw self esteem from within if you are letting people walk all over you. Every time you let someone treat you badly your self esteem drops just a little bit. If you can't respect yourself, how can you expect others to respect you, how can you expect others to love you?

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you that happen to unfortunately be in abusive relationships: Love yourself and respect yourself enough to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you - it is one of the toughest lesson's you will ever learn but also the most rewarding.

I wish all of you "unique" db'ers a good day,
hopefully some of you saw yourselves in the examples listed above and hopefully you have some additional clarity into what you are currently doing.

[Piano]

JacT, thanks for stopping by - I asked him months ago and tried to involve him but he wouldn't say, so I took it as a NO. In fact, I think he did say no. Skip forward and the friend living with him told me he does want to be at the birth and it would be a very big thing for him.

if i have him there, it will because I want him to come back to me. that's being honest.

thanks everyone for posting. it's 5 am..had my insomnia moment but better turn out the light and catch you all in a few hrs.

[Piano]

Kimme, good to read you. Before I nodd off again...

I'm very worried about the cake eating thing to, which is why i have been hardlining H most of the time..

But if the aim is to be the best YOU, whether they come back or not, then maybe cake eating needs to be the collatoral damage in a process that might just bring the desired outcome(s) more effectively.

What I like about Robx's post is that it seems to ask the LBS to look at reality, and listen to what the WAS is saying.

He might not have been posting about an A situation, or one where there is a baby on the way, but I still think it largely applies to all sitchs.

Happy to hear more thoughts, counter-arguments... I'm very interested in your ideas.

nigthy, night.