So glad W is OK, that kind of thing is sooo scary. I hope you got some Epi-Pens on the way home. BTW, as I learned on Christmas Day, if you hold an Epi-Pen upside down while trying to inject it into spouse's leg, the GIANT needle will shoot right through your thumb and out the thumbnail instead of into spouse's leg. Good thing they dispense Epi-Pens in pairs now!
Hey guys! Thanks for the well-wishing. She's ok. Still doing tests for not only the allergy thing but the heart issues she's been having for the past few months. Anyway, there's not really much to report. For sure her frequency of going out is WAY down. She's only been out with her "friends" once in the past couple weeks (edited in: and that's not just because of the health issues. We've done lots as a family in that time). That said, she didn't exactly tell me she was going, nor did she volunteer the info when I asked how the night went. I was working and her sister was in town so she popped out while I was gone and left the kids with sis. She didn't really "tell" me about it either. Rather the kids told me she went out and when I asked her about it, she admitted that she'd gone to dinner with "them" for a couple hours. We had a VERY quick discussion about it which I think surprised her (the quick part). She's used to me ranting and raving. I stopped myself from doing that. I simply told her it was NOT ok for her to go out and leave the kids without at least letting me know, especially with all that's going on with her health. I didn't say another word about it. No questions, no nothing. Then a couple days later I simply said to her on my way out "I am saying this to you now, when there is no time for discussion to prove I am not interested in fighting or arguing about this (normally I would wait until we had plenty of time to go at it). I've been thinking a lot about things and wanted to let you know that I will accept no deception in our marriage, and that her going out again without telling me was a form of that considering the already dubious nature of these friends." That's it. She looked at me kinda surprised and just said "ok". There hasn't been much else going on since then, which I think was Monday.
Our SL continues to be fantastic, better than it's been since the affair, and life in general is good. We are making business decisions, plans for the future, etc.
I still can't say for sure what I think about the possibility of an affair. What I can say for certain is that IF she is having one, she learned a lot from last time and has made a conscious decision to go about this one differently, e.g. never admit anything. Last time, very shortly after it began, she spilled and then continued it for a long time. This time she's still kinda out in the open, as if she's doing nothing wrong, but she's still acting affectionate towards me (not at all last time), still active with the family (not much at all last time), still wants me around (not at all last time) and in general, is acting fairly "normal". If she's covering something up, she's gotten SO much better at it.
I'm starting to really believe that things RIGHT NOW are as she says. We would call it an EA but to her, she just has friends, one of whom is a guy. I believe SHE believes that's all it is. I believe that it can and likely will be more. That said, it's POSSIBLE that it won't.
So I am living life, trying to do better for me, keeping one eye on her and going forward with absolutely no expectations of what will happen. I fully accept all possibilities and also my power to decide what to do if/when I find out there's something to react to. I am far from stupid and know that if she continues to lie or at least be less than honest, that there's a good chance it's not just because I react like an a-hole so she wants to avoid conflict.
So to summarize, most signs point to better sailing ahead but danmit if I can't hear a bomber in the distance. Just have to get the AA guns ready and see if they turn this way.
I totally agree. I am trying to build trust from my side towards hers. Maybe bass-akwards but it's all I can do right now. One thing I am dealing with is her stated reason for why she's at all deceptive. Of course it has nothing to do with an affiar or anything like that.
Here's how the story plays out from HER point of view every time she says she's going out;
1) She says she's going out with "friends". 2) From the time she tells me that to when she actually goes, whether that's an hour or week, I start acting strange at least, and downright angry at worst. 3) We have incessant talks about R and all surrounding it. 4) I get increasingly upset and agitated until she leaves. 5) I usually blow up when she gets home and repeat 2-4 for the next day or so.
What I am trying to do is rid our lives of steps 2-5. She CLAIMS that 100% of her lack of honesty is because of those reactions by me and how she hates it. She claims that if she just tells me last minute, or avoids going out when I am home, that she avoids a lot of the drama. Of course I know that's likely a load of BS but hey, I HATE those parts of my personality too It's what I worked so hard through DB to rid myself of SO... I figure I will work to get back to that place I want to be as a person and see if that makes any difference at all. I am hopeful but not overly optimistic that my changes will fix our marriage but I am sure they will help me be a happier person. She is totally right in that right or wrong, I act like an uncontrolled ass sometimes, and its that I want to fix right now.
Like I've said all along, I am not blind. I know what could be going on and I'll deal with it as necessary. For now I am committed to working on my part in all this and eventually if she's true to our marriage, she'll work on her part to build back trust. Right now, I admit, the foundation is thin fer sure. I am also working on making sure my boundaries are clear (e.g. communication is not optional for starters) so that if things go sour, at least I am being honest with HER about what will happen going forward.
Here's how the story plays out from HER point of view every time she says she's going out;
1) She says she's going out with "friends". 2) From the time she tells me that to when she actually goes, whether that's an hour or week, I start acting strange at least, and downright angry at worst. 3) We have incessant talks about R and all surrounding it. 4) I get increasingly upset and agitated until she leaves. 5) I usually blow up when she gets home and repeat 2-4 for the next day or so.
What I am trying to do is rid our lives of steps 2-5. She CLAIMS that 100% of her lack of honesty is because of those reactions by me and how she hates it. She claims that if she just tells me last minute, or avoids going out when I am home, that she avoids a lot of the drama. Of course I know that's likely a load of BS
Well, at least you're seeing things clearly this time, GH, and that's a huge first step.
I'm glad your wife's OK.
How about, if instead of 1-5 above, you just tried these TWO:
1) She says she's going out with "friends".
2) I say "OK, but considering what's happened in the past, it's really hard for me to feel safe in the marriage when you're intentionally vague with me like this, and I've tried to tell you that, honestly and without anger. If we can't be transparent with each other, and with the kids, then I'm not sure this is going to work for me."
What do you think would be the likely outcome of such a stance?
Good advice Pup. See, I told you you were great with boundaries
And, GH, I think you are headed in that direction already...
Re: ""I've been thinking a lot about things and wanted to let you know that I will accept no deception in our marriage, and that her going out again without telling me was a form of that considering the already dubious nature of these friends." That's it. She looked at me kinda surprised and just said "ok". There hasn't been much else going on since then, which I think was Monday.
Our SL continues to be fantastic, better than it's been since the affair"
And, I bet the more you are direct and respectful of yourself, the better the sex will get
Now, consider what we here would say to your W in a situation when her H reacted like you do as described in 2-5.
I *might* suggest something like this.
1) Tell H that you will not involve him in your personal plans UNTIL he does something to address his consistent controlling and attacking response.
2) Make your plans on your own, involve H only as necessary for childcare.
The idea would be to break the cycle of disrespect and control and refuse to interact with H in a way that consistently violates the W's boundaries.
Let's say 1-2 would be a reasonable approach to take. Perhaps you can at least see why W might take such an approach... If so, then this could help get you on the same page. You could agree that this would be a reasonable approach for her to take.
The problem, then, is that (1) has skipped step (1) and not allowed for its implications. So, she didn't directly explain the problem to you before she went darkish on you. And, moreover, she doesn't allow you space for change. there is no UNTIL in her thinking. This doesn't allow for YOUR growth or growth in your M. It keeps you stuck in a nasty cycle.
But, you have already clearly grown, as your quote above demonstrates. Plus, you have sincerely committed to acting differently with her friends and acknowledged the previous problem.
But, unless she allows for your changes to affect her choices, she'll just STAY stuck operating from (2) in isolation, and using old, now FALSE, stuff to justify her current behavior.
THAT is where she needs to change and give her partner (YOU) space to be the partner she wants. If she won't allow the M to improve and won't recognize your changes, well, so much the worse for her and your M.
Hope you see the buy-in point via compassion and where if she is sincere she needs to acknowledge that her position is only justifiable if there is a real possibility for the two of you to work together to ditch your 1-5 for something that works for both of you.
BTW, did you read that article? Good for future dreams :-)
I suck. Between being busy and not TOO much development, I am not making it here enough to post.
Ok, since we last visited GH...
Thanks for the advice and affirmation. I would love to say things have taken leaps and bounds in the right direction. Surely they are better-ish but that may just be because there is still a much decreased frequency of contact with "friends" these days. Of course since W is home during the day and I am working... who really knows for sure. I actually have not suspected they have ever seen each other during the day.
The frustrating thing is that we seem to be at a silent impasse right now. Things may have calmed down with whatever was going on with this guy but we've never really addressed the core of the issues (her being vague, deceptive, my anger, etc). We just kinda moved past it a bit. I don't really like that since it's clear we both need to at least address these things on our own, and I think together as well. It's entirely possible, even probable that my W is handling her issues her way, as am I. The thing is that I tend to be very communicative and she tends to internalize everything until it bursts out of her. That's what I am afraid of, but any attempt I make to get her to open up results in conflict. I need to work on my approach I suppose.
So for now I am considering talking about these R issues a bit taboo while I still address my own issues. I am far from over those. I have, on occasion, and sometimes without provocation, lashed out at W for the sitch. Each time I realize it too late and then go into damage control mode, which makes things worse. Kinda like poking the shark then cutting yourself and floundering around in the water.
I REALLY want to get to a detached place where I can be like I was in the "old days", able to live my life and love my wife without feeling responsible for every emotion, situation and reaction she experiences. I am getting back there but it's slow going. I think I was a little self-deceptive when it comes to admitting how far I had fallen from that position over the past few years.
I have read OT and Puppy's advice and will incorporate it into my process. I think calmly expressed boundaries are the key. We'll see. I am fairly sure she may be going out tonight but she's surprised me over the past week or two when I assumed she was going to do something (negative) and she didn't. Usually my assumptions (yea, I know... bad GH) are right. I am cursed with being VERY perceptive. Anymore though her behavior has become less predictable, and I suppose that's a good thing since the behavior I was so good at predicting was bad.
At this point my daily struggle is in NOT reacting to every little bump in the road as if it's the end of my marriage. I think if anything I have taken this idea that it's up to me to decide what I want too far. I express that too much and it feels like brinkmanship. It's almost like I express these little ultimatums ("If this doesn't end soon, it will end our marriage") but too often and they seem like saber rattling. I really need to stop that.
So I am living day-to-day almost like someone with an addiction problem. I am a recovering control freak, and always will be a recovering control freak. What's worse is that I am in a situation that many people would say demands control
Thanks again for checkin' in on me. I will try to get back more often, and not just when things turn for the worse, which I hope they don't.
So I am living day-to-day almost like someone with an addiction problem. I am a recovering control freak, and always will be a recovering control freak. What's worse is that I am in a situation that many people would say demands control
Well, at least you're continuing to see things clearly!
"Hi, Grasshopper -- I'm Puppy, and I'm a recovering control freak."
