Pam and David both:
I do feel like David got more than a few spitwads between the eyes. It sounds to me as if the interpretation of that was: "We are 'bashing' him because we feel loyal to you and are on your side". I believe that is not the case.

First of all, he did receive some richocet anger that is triggered in many of us who have been through betrayal--that anger doesn't belong to David and he shouldn't take that personally. It wasn't fair, though, that's true.

As you have had the experience many times here--you know that sometimes the kindest thing you can get is some people telling you to wake up and smell the coffee. You yourself have had quite a few posts of this nature. So have most of us. When someone calls me on my bs, and it is definately intended to help--it is actually one of the bests gifts they could give me.

I am not on "your side" or "David's side". What I see is two people who married and are having some problems. I'm on the side of trying 100% to not throw away a marraige until every effort is made to save it, including counseling.

This is the deal Wolfie and I made: We agreed to a specific amount of time to try 100%. That included individual and marraige counseling and working with a beginner's mind. Neither one of us was sure our R would survive and neither of us were sure we would want to continue our R if we did try everything but one or both of us wanted out. Out of respect to ourselves, each other, our family, and for the life we had built together over the years, we agreed that we would try and see. To end it in the wake of the bomb would have been ugly. If we tried and it wasn't going to work, then we deserved to split up in a respectful way.

I sincerely hope that you two come to the point of both trying in an open-minded way. Too me, however, continuing to be involved with an OP sabotages any chance to get unconfused and see if there is a chance for your M.

Personally, I like David and I think he has a place in all of our hearts. But if anyone showed up on the boards here full of confusion about an A, full of confusion about whether or not to stay in their M, I'd say the same to anyone...if you want to see if there is a possibility to save your M and make it a much better one, the first step would have to be to stop seeing the OP.

Because I think most of the people here like David and care about the two of you, it IS especially frustrating.

Wolfie was also very confused, and he is similar to David about having a very hard time showing his feelings, much less talking about them. I am so grateful that he found a Counselor to help him with those issues, and she really did confront him on a lot of the rationalizing he was doing. Believe me, she wasn't pulling any punches! I think that was the best thing he could have ever done for himself. Even if we had split up, I would have been glad that he has become much healthier and happier from what he has learned in Counseling!

Please let David know that I think he got some tough-love but none of us are all that great at being Dr. Phil!