What about a person who wants to know that for a fact they did hurt you? I would not tell these people or try to show it if I can avoid it.
I haven't run up against that in close personal relationships, I guess.
Don't get me wrong: things have been said with the malicous intent to hurt my feelings, and in the past, I just got angry about such things.
Then one day, I just decided getting angry wasn't getting through, and I was playing into a sort of game that justified the attacks, and I just said, "That hurts my feelings when you say that".
The response was, "I don't want to hurt your feelings", and my follow up was, "I didn't think you did, so that's why I am telling you".
Now there's a bit of a white lie in there: the object was most certainly hurting my feelings (and provoking an angry response no doubt). By responding like I did, however, I was able to be very cool about the whole thing, and get my W to think about what she was saying to me.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
What if words are being said, actions are being done, time is being wasted, buttons are being pushed, boundaries are broken and disregarded all with intent to cause you anger and pain?
TimeHeals, What if words are being said, actions are being done, time is being wasted, buttons are being pushed, boundaries are broken and disregarded all with intent to cause you anger and pain?
Honestly, I don't know, but we're at risk of hijacking this thread.
At some point, you just have to worry about the things you can control (like your own actions). Detachment helps in that regard. In the 18th century, there was an Enlightenment concept called "disinterest". It didn't mean not being interested. It meant doing the right thing without putting your own interests and ego first. You can detatch like that.
Think of how you would react to somebody you don't know saying something crazy like "I don't love you, I never have, and I don't even like you". Your response would probably be something like, "OK, that's nice. I am going to go away from you now".
A stranger saying such things is absolutely meaningless, and that's kind of how I think of detachment. What the other says is not really about me at all.
Now, if a stranger says, "give me your wallet or I am going to shoot you with this gun in my hand", then that's another matter altogether.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
H called me. We had a nice chat. No yelling or arguing. Point blank: he wants to work things out. He said he got upset because he misinterpreted my communication to him about us "playing house" as in that I didn't want to have a R with him and that I didn't have feelings for him. Without being mushy or looking weak, I clarified. He said that he wants to come home and is willing to do what it takes (work wise) to get our life back on track. He said he can't make guarantees on whether or not we'll pull through (which I agreed that I couldn't make guarantees either) but that we'd need to work together.
I agreed.
I never really got to this point before with him. Is there something else I should have said? I feel like I should have said more? I dunno.
On a side note, remember how I told you that I checked intel and saw he went out with an acquaintance? well, he told me he went out last night but he said it was with his attorney. he lied. (then again, I don't know this 100%; I'm going by what I saw in the logs and what I saw was his telling this acquaintance that his attorney had asked for a raincheck and he asked the acquaintence out to dinner instead. for all I know, the attorney may have called him up afterwards and gone with him? I have no clue...). I obviously can't say anything because I will not give up my source, so do I just store this in the back of my mind?
M: 32 H: 34 S:5 D: 3 D: 1 Together 11 years Married 7 Bomb: PA/EA 8/13/09 (for 1 year on and off) ILYBINILWY: 08/09
"The end of suffering happens with the end of wanting." -Laura Munson
As other people have said, take it slow. It is a start. Take all of the information you have learned here and put it to practice. Now is the time for him to prove that he is serious. You have proven it by fighting for you marriage all this time. Now it's his turn.
I hope yours can be one of the seemingly rare success stories!
I never really got to this point before with him. Is there something else I should have said? I feel like I should have said more? I dunno.
Yah, I know that feeling. When I'm struggling with that question, my IC tells me to just take some quiet time, look deep inside your heart and think. If there's something bothering you, then that's what you should say. Don't worry about his reaction or how he'll take it. Just say it.
Just be sure to guard your heart THA. (Sandi said that to me once and it's so true). Be sure to lay down your boundaries with him. Again, look inside your heart and think about what you need to feel happy, fulfilled and be able to TRUST in him and this R. Whatever it is you come up with, those are your boundaries that need to be spoken. I think a good part of the value in saying them out loud to someone, is to allow you to hear yourself saying them... When you hear yourself expressing them, it brings you the courage you'll need to act in the event that they're crossed.
Regarding your suspicions about what him lying... oh my goodness this is out of my league. But THA, if there's one thing I've learned is that you MUST trust in yourself and your intuition on this. I'm very concerned for you about this. Please don't just sweep it under the rug...
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
I don't want to sweep it under the rug but the way I look at it, if I do/say anything, I give up my intel, and I am NOT willing to do that. Also, if I act on it, I don't know 100% that he is lying, KWIM? Like I said, for all I know, the attorney may have very well decided to go to dinner afterall. I think I need to sit tight on this one. The way I look at it is that once he comes home, he'll be away from there. OR maybe he didn't say anything because he thought I'd be upset if I knew he went out with this guy? Although, why would I be? it's just odd. I don't know.
I'm def going to guard my heart and continue DBing and putting myself first.
He said himself that he questioned my feelings for him because he thought I had somehow moved on due to the fact that I wasn't as readily available as I had been before. Go figure.
Thanks PG. (((HUGSSSSSS))
M: 32 H: 34 S:5 D: 3 D: 1 Together 11 years Married 7 Bomb: PA/EA 8/13/09 (for 1 year on and off) ILYBINILWY: 08/09
"The end of suffering happens with the end of wanting." -Laura Munson
If thats a load of bull, how long should it take? I mean how long should one go without love and affection before they either cheat or leave?
Hi DaddyLongShanks, I'm not sure! I've been in that spot for a while now, and believe me, cheating and leaving have both been a real temptation. Now, this is all from my frame of reference in my own M so everyone, please punt this info if it doesn't feel right to you! From what my IC has taught me, if I am feeling without love and affection in my R, my responsibilities are: - learn about things that are missing in my own life (eg self-esteem, self-worth) that my H can't give me... learn things I can to to give those things to myself - begin sharing my feelings with my H about how the lack of love and affection is affecting me AND - figure out what it is that I need from my H to feel loved; to feel that affection etc. - then tell/ask my H accurately, and in a genuine, respectful way, for those exact things... consistently over time
Again, speaking from my sitch here, and until I'm doing that again consistently, I don't have the right to do anything but glue my butt down in this M and keep working at it! No cheating! No leaving!
If after that, my needs are still being disreguarded or unfulfilled, then it's time to stop asking and time to take action. Now I haven't gotten to that point yet, so I don't exactly know what 'action' means (yeek). And I hope to never find out.
I don't know if that helps anyone or not. I know everyone's situations are SO different. But at least it's another viewpoint for consideration.
I cannot complain for not receiving from others, that which I've never asked them for.
If thats a load of bull, how long should it take? I mean how long should one go without love and affection before they either cheat or leave?
Hi DaddyLongShanks, I'm not sure! I've been in that spot for a while now, and believe me, cheating and leaving have both been a real temptation. Now, this is all from my frame of reference in my own M so everyone, please punt this info if it doesn't feel right to you! From what my IC has taught me, if I am feeling without love and affection in my R, my responsibilities are: - learn about things that are missing in my own life (eg self-esteem, self-worth) that my H can't give me... learn things I can to to give those things to myself - begin sharing my feelings with my H about how the lack of love and affection is affecting me AND - figure out what it is that I need from my H to feel loved; to feel that affection etc. - then tell/ask my H accurately, and in a genuine, respectful way, for those exact things... consistently over time
Again, speaking from my sitch here, and until I'm doing that again consistently, I don't have the right to do anything but glue my butt down in this M and keep working at it! No cheating! No leaving!
If after that, my needs are still being disreguarded or unfulfilled, then it's time to stop asking and time to take action. Now I haven't gotten to that point yet, so I don't exactly know what 'action' means (yeek). And I hope to never find out.
I don't know if that helps anyone or not. I know everyone's situations are SO different. But at least it's another viewpoint for consideration.
Yeah many of us are in this position. Getting to that point where your needs are met, I would say shouldn't take over 2 years. It just shouldn't be an afterthought and I don't know how it could slip anyones mind.
I have been doing alot of reading on marriages, infidelity and the such and there are men and women who have not had intimate contact or verbal affirmation from their "spouse" in over 10 years, some over 20 years.
I do love that various verses in the Bible indicate that sex and intimacy is one of gods gifts within marriage and it should be given "freely". There should not be a selfishness behind it.
Proverbs 5:19 "Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy you at all times; and be you ravished always with her love. " http://bible.cc/proverbs/5-19.htm Corinthians 1:7 "2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer." http://niv.scripturetext.com/1_corinthians/7.htm
