Matilda, I'd like to at least have a discussion about this. Things are pretty emotional right now. It's odd to me the level of connection she wants to maintain, though I'm in the guest room this week again.
I was hoping to advocate for marital therapy, but I now wonder about the timing of it. I think I need to face her concerns, and allow her to vent.
It seems to me that if she talks to me, I should participate and hear her concerns. If she wants to connect, I should consider if it can be a positive experience. I don't see how going "on-strike" with the Hustle Formation would help. It would take away my and her recreation, and a buffer between the problems.
If she resumes sleeping elsewhere or violate boundaries, than I respond again in some fashion. I believe my spoken words have had an effect on her. She does listen to what I say. I just have to speak-up.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Bobbi Jo, I appreciate you taking the time to write me.
It is true I don't want to stop the performance group. I don't see how taking away recreation from the both of us would be helpful.
I don't think I'm afraid of pushing her away. How much worse can things get? I'm not convinced it's the right approach. I'm still sorting thru options. I'm confused.
I need to take a different approach than I have in the past. I was hoping that increasing positive connection would be enough. I was wrong. I've taken a GAL approach in the past, which has done wonders for me personally, but hasn't resolved relatonal problems. I understand now that patience in itself does not solve problems. It merely buys you time. I think of how the president helped to pass health reform thru his sheer will. It's going to take a similar approach.
I haven't really fought for the M. I haven't looked into the basement, walked into the lion's, walked thru fire, looked into the underbelly of the beast. Naej thinks that my W is trying to prompt me into being a husband. She may be right.
It doesn't mean that I sweep things under the rug, or ignore my emotions. I need to be honest with myself and my W. My W wants to continue to connect, and I have to figure-out what to do with that.
Whatever approach I choose, it must be a stretch for me, and must involve me doing it in spite of fear. It will involve facing difficult conversations, setting boundaries, speaking-up when I need to, and having a presence in this.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
CL," I'm getting mixed messages from my W. She complains so loudly, but yet wants to spend time with me. I went out to dinner with her last night to keep her company." She is using you pure and simple--who pays for dinner? She wants a lap dog, male company not a husband. Cl you are not new to all this, be honest with yourself,maybe trying to assert yourself is new but pacifying your wife is a very old habit. If you are so terrified of unpleasantness if you enforce boundaries that upset your wife then put a plan together that will have you as far away from her as soon as possible after you state your boundaries. Personally the fear of living as you are now for the rest of your days would be more terrifying to me, especially when you say you are not afraid of a D. Is that really true? Could you afford to move out and get a lawyer to deal with all communications, just cut and run. You are being abused and bullied by this woman, who somehow has tremendous power over you. Is this your first marriage and hers? As long as you jump when she sends you from the bedroom she will continue to treat you like her whipping boy.I think she has a ponchon for "bad boys" Matilda, not sure why CL would even want to contemplate being intimate with his wife at this stage,did you read what happened a few posts ago? If (and hopefully) when he has a wife/partner who treats him with the love and respect he deserves I am sure he will have no problem with intimacy.I am sure that CL is not the type of man who seeks sex purely for his own gratification and manly needs. Find the courage you need CL and to thine own self be true. Sorry for harsh words but I worry about you.
Matilda, If she resumes sleeping elsewhere or violate boundaries, than I respond again in some fashion. I believe my spoken words have had an effect on her. She does listen to what I say. I just have to speak-up. CL
CL, I think in the past you have been a little too passive and I know how hard it is to change. I have been there and still am a little. BUT what you wrote above says allot. You might want to make a copy of what I quoted from your post and put it in a place that you can read it every morning to remind yourself of your goal
I'm with ya buddy Doc
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Naej, Things have to change. I do fear living the rest of my days like this. I do believe I deserve better.
I still have hope for some reason. I see potential for change. I see changes in her. I have to see what potential there is for change. I think she's reaching out for me, in her own way.
I could not afford to move out. It seems like D would have to be a partnership.
I have to take some responsibility for the mess we're in. She is living in a sexually starved marriage. We have been roommates for a long time. The more conservative approaches have not worked.
I am going to find a partner who treats me with love and respect. We'll see if my W is capable of being that person.
I've come to realize that patience in and of itself does not solve problems. It merely buys you the time to decide on choosing the right strategy and deciding the right time to implement it. I think the time is ripe for presence and boundaries to be effective. We'll see if I'm right, or will be disappointed.
You words are helpful.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
CL I truly hope you are not disappointed. I truly hope you set and enforce boundaries.
No breakdown is onesided and you know your faults but whilst your wife is living in a SSM as you say, by all acounts she is not sex starved and if she loved you and that was the real issue then surely she should have spelt that out to you and if you had been unable to meet her requirements then she should have left or you both should have been able to agree on an "open type" marriage kind of thing which is basically what you have now without your agreement. I know little of these marriages other than they exist and seem to work for some people. I think maybe patience is confused with rug sweeping but that's ok as now you see that it has not worked and as I do believe that your wife is waiting for you to stand up and be a man action may be just the thing needed. You can still be true to your beliefs whilst setting and enforcing boundaries. The key word being enforcing, once set no looking for loopholes to excuse the fact she is flouting them, no excuses or backpeddling on your part because the alternative is going to cause upset / unpleasantness. Divorce is unpleasant and upsetting but it is a process that once gone through ends,it doesn't last forever. Take care.
Doc, I'm already thinking about what my response will be if she sleeps elsewhere again. I don't think I need to have a tirade, but she needs to see that I am firm about my commitment to myself to have a W, not a roommate, and that I would prefer a single life versus a dysfunctional M
If I phrase it to her as wanting to strive for something positive for myself and the both of us, there can be no disagreement from her. She will have to choose whether she wants to commit to the M or not. There are no other options for her.
My W has been put on marital probation.
I don't have a plan yet on how to pursue a D, if I make that decision, but that's OK. It is now an option.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Naej, I have to remember that one person changing the dynamics of a R, can have a significant impact. I also remember from DB, that if the R hasn't changed, than one person hasn't changed enough (that would be me).
My W probably should have had the courage to leave or threaten to leave the M, versus making a unilateral decision to have a one-sided open M. I won't accept going into individual therapy to fix OUR marital problems anymore. Her blaming won't be accepted. That approach hasn't worked either.
I keep thinking about what you're saying about my W waiting for me to have a presence and fight for the M. I haven't fought for the M in the past. I've been loyal, patient, resentful, avoidant, tolerant, and passive. Maybe I wanted to escape but also didn't have the courage to leave or stand up to her.
Posting here helps to keep me accountable.
Let this new phase begin.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Well done CL I hope you are steadfast and resolute in this. Again from a female POV all the things you listed, patience,loyalty,tolerance ect say to me, he really doesn't care that much about me, I am not worth fighting for,as long as his life doesn't change and I remain in the house. Don't get me wrong, patience,loyalty and tolerance are admirable qualities. Resentment and passive--not so good.
This may be just me and not all women but if as your wife I was behaving as she does I would be wanting to see some anger some jealousy some sign that I belonged to you,that you wanted me and in no way shape or form would you put up with sharing.
To me she is screaming out for you to show some passion and I don't just mean in the bedroom. She feels neglected,uncared for and unloved. Granted she could say all this verbally but maybe she feels driven to express that in other ways because for years she has been or thinks she has been telling you this.
She is 50, maybe her looks are going, she feels insecure as a woman and needs her confidence boosting,she wonders if "this" is all there is and so she is fighting the advancing years and her fears by proving to her self that others find her attractive and desirable and she can still "pull".
I am trying to put myself in her shoes,I know I am always critical of her behaviour but she has been the one to live with you and your passiveness all these years. So just a few thoughts to add to your list of ponderings. You may disregard all but maybe I am right on one or two points. Guess it all boils down to how much do you love and want her. Blessings.
If you are not overloaded with reading I would suggested the book "The way of the superior man" I'm not sure if you have already read it but the introduction seems to suggest it might be helpful to you.
I hear many of todays sucessful women complain that many of todays men have become "wimps" too ambiguos to trust. Sensitive and affectionate men are complaining that too many of todays women have become "ballbusters" too hardened and emotionally guarded to fully embrace.
Sound familiar ?
Anyway I've just started to read it cos I'm sure I can learn from it too.
Lanzo
Originally Posted By: CL 02/12/09
Lanzo,
Thanks for the visit. I'm looking for different approaches so will explore your book as an option......
