Number 8's Revelations, Mistakes, and New Methods

[Onthemountaintop]

When we talked the other night, I told him to come get his stuff (as I mentioned in an earlier post). I was angry when we talked, and I let loose with my angry feelings more than I have (though I didn't say anything that I regret). He remarked with surprise that he had expected me to get angrier before now.

Would apologizing for your demand to get his stuff be a 180? Following Flowmom's idea...which person was the one that he loved when he married you?

So now, the question is how I should act. Do I act like it's fine if he goes? That I'm glad to see him go? That I wish he wouldn't?

Isn't that your hardest decision? Whatever you do, always look for evidence if it is helping or hurting. Do what helps. Personally, I think honesty is always the best policy. Nice honesty doesn't mean saying everything.

Because I'm not totally familiar with your time line, did you leave or did she back in October?

Oct-She said she'd leave when the kids are grown, I asked if she wanted a D, she said yes, so I told her I was divorcing her. I moved into an in-house separation. Since then, I have been the main force trying to get things working, despite the fact I was the one who decided to leave and I didn't even love her - not even at the start of our M (I do now). So I'm the WAH that tried to pull my W back and find ways to love her. Go figure.

I'm wondering if I should leave this (and him) alone for a while. He seems so convinced that D is the only way, and I don't want to exasperate him with my hopefulness.

You're right - don't flood him. Still, move closer a step at a time - fight for the opportunity, then if he floods, back up only one step.

Do what IS right, even if it hurts. You'll never feel guilty for that.

[Number 8]

You're not going to intellectually convince him to reconcile. It's going to have to come from him.

This is true, and it continues to be hard for me to understand. I'm a thinker, but I cannot (and do not) expect everyone to sort through things the way I do.

Of course, what you can do to help this is to be the 8 that he fell in love with, do any 180s that you need to do for YOU, GAL, be unpredictable, etc. Oh and detach . Reconcilers, esp LBW, always seem to pin their success on detachment, GAL, and 180s.

I finally believe I'm beginning to understand detachment. This is coming after my conversation with him last Monday and my third IC session last Tuesday. I've been good with the GAL, and I try to come up with 180s regularly. However, I haven't understood detachment until this past week. I think I'm ready to ease into it.

One thing that concerns me a bit about your strategy is that your H might be liking the communicating you because he wants pseudo-friendship and enough connection to assuage his guilt. It could be that your communicating and being open with your feelings is working for him, but not in a way that's going to trigger a reignition of his romantic interest in you. Think back to courtship-era 8 and think about what attracted him to you.

I think that if I was more open about my emotions it might feel comfortable to H because he'd have a sense of where I'm at. It's possibly a bit unsettling for him that he has no idea what's going on with me...but I'm hoping that's good because it introduces doubt into his mind: "maybe I don't know her as well as I think I do...maybe she has changed".

Thanks for contributing this part about communication with him. I haven't thought much about how he could be using this to make it work for him. I'll do some thinking about what "courtship 8" was like and how to reel him back in.

[Number 8]

When we talked the other night, I told him to come get his stuff (as I mentioned in an earlier post). I was angry when we talked, and I let loose with my angry feelings more than I have (though I didn't say anything that I regret). He remarked with surprise that he had expected me to get angrier before now.

Would apologizing for your demand to get his stuff be a 180? Following Flowmom's idea...which person was the one that he loved when he married you?

I thought about what you wrote here, and I sent an e-mail just a bit ago. I told him that I'd been thinking about his getting his things and that I thought he had the right idea by coming on Monday (instead of on Sunday). I apologized for being difficult and demanding, and I said that it seemed like it would be better for him to be there when he had a day off. I also said that I would be at work on Monday.

So now, the question is how I should act. Do I act like it's fine if he goes? That I'm glad to see him go? That I wish he wouldn't?

Isn't that your hardest decision? Whatever you do, always look for evidence if it is helping or hurting. Do what helps. Personally, I think honesty is always the best policy. Nice honesty doesn't mean saying everything.

Yes, that IS my hardest decision! I don't know how to act! I appreciate what you said about honesty--and nice honesty--and I think this will be a philosophy I adopt.

Because I'm not totally familiar with your time line, did you leave or did she back in October?

Oct-She said she'd leave when the kids are grown, I asked if she wanted a D, she said yes, so I told her I was divorcing her. I moved into an in-house separation. Since then, I have been the main force trying to get things working, despite the fact I was the one who decided to leave and I didn't even love her - not even at the start of our M (I do now). So I'm the WAH that tried to pull my W back and find ways to love her. Go figure.

I'm intrigued by your saying that you didn't love her, even at the beginning of your M, until now. Would you mind sharing more about this?

I'm wondering if I should leave this (and him) alone for a while. He seems so convinced that D is the only way, and I don't want to exasperate him with my hopefulness.

You're right - don't flood him. Still, move closer a step at a time - fight for the opportunity, then if he floods, back up only one step.

Do what IS right, even if it hurts. You'll never feel guilty for that.

I think that for my own health and well-being that I NEED to step back for a while. I've had a good rest of the week since my IC session last Tuesday, and H has sent me a few texts/e-mails this week. I've handled it all very well.

Cut to when I sent him an e-mail about 30 minutes or so ago. This e-mail was about his coming to get things and my suggestion to come on Monday. I noticed halfway through it that I was breathing deeply. I remembered what IC said I'm doing when I'm doing this, and I've been doing my hyperventilating thing since then. If I were to see him on Sunday (which is tomorrow!), I'm afraid I would need a portable oxygen tank or resuscitation assistance.

This doesn't mean that I'm going to stop my efforts. I just have to think of how I can do it without passing out from lack of oxygen.

Hope you're enjoying your weekend!

[rr22]

This all happened really recently. It's normal for you to have this level of anxiety and anger right now. If you want to not show that to him for whatever reason, you will have to hide out on the days that you feel worse. Sounds like you are learning to tell from your breathing when you are getting more anxious. Did the IC have some good tips on what to do when that happens?

[Number 8]

This all happened really recently. It's normal for you to have this level of anxiety and anger right now. If you want to not show that to him for whatever reason, you will have to hide out on the days that you feel worse.

H did not come today after our e-mail discussion last night, which was a relief to me. I didn't want to either have to see him or plan my day around avoiding him. He'll come later in the week, maybe on Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, while I'm at work. I think this is better for both of us for now.

Sounds like you are learning to tell from your breathing when you are getting more anxious. Did the IC have some good tips on what to do when that happens?

I am getting better at recognizing the signs of my increasing anxiety. IC said to use any and all techniques I know to calm myself down (breathing, doing something enjoyable, visualizing my favorite things/happy moments, etc.). At our next session this coming Tuesday, she and I are going to work on some type of breathing training. I hope I learn it quickly!

[Number 8]

Fabulous GAL activities today!

Best friend (one of two) and I went to a street festival in our town today, and Boxer dog had to come along, of course. Boxer dog's first outing when H and I got him was this very street festival, and he's been every year since. Boxer dog cannot stand to break traditions.

Summary of today's events:

*Found two lovely pieces of concrete yard art, one of which is a turtle (as a tribute to real turtle who lives in my house)
*Shared funnel cake with best friend
*Boxer dog received multiple compliments on his great beauty; was photographed at least twice by strangers
*Saw several colleagues and chatted with them
*Sunburned my part (AGAIN)
*Drank a fresh lemonade (only a small part was spilled on my foot when Boxer dog jerked and considered bolting from great fright of local pizza company's giant mascot in full costume)
*Purchased exquisite poppy art for dining room walls
*Had arm nearly jerked out of socket when Boxer dog bucked wildly at the sight of a dolly/hand truck being used to transport boxes
*Apologized profusely to parents of toddler twins when Boxer dog attempted to back up and sit his rear end in the stroller with the children
*Left street festival with best friend and ate outdoors at excellent Mexican restaurant
*Despite great anxiety, didn't run into H at street festival
*Drove best friend home and came home to relax. Boxer dog likely will sleep until tomorrow morning

Best friend is having a hard time with her two young daughters (separation/mother-out-of-sight issues), so it was a good day for the two of us to be together. We agreed that we had a great time together but that it still didn't make our pain completely go away. I don't expect it to go away quickly, but I wonder when I won't have these thoughts and feelings looming all the time.

Hope everyone else enjoyed their weekends and GA great L!

[rr22]

that sounds great! glad you had a great day! yes, it's scary worrying about bumping into H, i'm sure. i'm glad you went out and didn't stay home over it! glad you have someone you know in your town going through something similar to talk to.

[Number 8]

that sounds great! glad you had a great day! yes, it's scary worrying about bumping into H, i'm sure. i'm glad you went out and didn't stay home over it! glad you have someone you know in your town going through something similar to talk to.

It was very fun, and I'm glad I went. I did consider not going, but then I thought, "This is MY town. I should go." I was anxious about seeing him and how I should react, but I didn't have to worry about it. I wasn't able to completely relax, but I guess that's normal.

[Number 8]

Very peaceful day today. I got to work with a small group of adults and do some crisis training with them. They were an attentive, responsive group of people, and they all had an interest in being there (which always makes it easier).

Though I've taught this course numerous times over the past 3 or 4 years, some of the content had new meaning for me today. Here are some of MY OWN WORDS that felt different when I spoke them today:

*Under every behavior is a feeling. The behavior that an individual exhibits is trying to communicate something, and you must look and listen carefully to determine the real message.
*Crisis truisms--the crisis WILL end. The only thing you can control in a crisis is yourself.
*There are things that affect your interactions with others called precipitating factors. These are internal and external factors over which we have no control. These are the things that may lead up to a crisis that had nothing to do with you. Understanding these can help you avoid becoming another factor or escalating the behavior.
*Those who deal well with crises are able to employ something called rational detachment. This is the ability to stay in control of your own behavior and not take the other person's behavior personally. You have to find positive outlets for the negative energy you absorb from this person without reacting to this person.
*Fear and anxiety are universal human emotions. You may not be able to eliminate these feelings, but knowing what makes you afraid and anxious helps you learn to control them. You can also use the energy these emotions create to your advantage.

I truly believe it was serendipitous that I had to teach this course today. I've been struggling with a number of emotions and feel like I am not maintaining my internal composure well. I've said these words or variations of them countless times to others to EDUCATE them on how to deal with difficult situations. How is it that I forgot all these things when dealing with my own crisis???

During my lunch break, I chatted with a male colleague (he was not attending the training but was conducting a different training). This colleague has been a good friend for several years, and he had worked as my mother's assistant before he was promoted to his current job (this was more than a decade ago). His wife and I are also good friends, and I spend time with his two children a couple times a month.

He has known about my H's depression, but he didn't know anything of my current situation. Since he had been close to my mother (and has been a good friend to me), it made him sad to hear how things had been lately. He listened and validated my feelings, which was very helpful. He also shared how H might have felt (from the male perspective) about the inheritance of the house. He said that it was probably difficult for him to think that he had not contributed financially (though I didn't contribute financially, either). This wasn't new information for me, but it's interesting to hear it again from yet another source.

I'm excited about my IC appointment tomorrow (Tuesday). I can hardly wait to learn how to breathe.

[rr22]

That stuff from your workshop sounds great. Thanks for sharing. Rational detachment sounds good. Much better than flailing, irrational engagement. Already tried that one. Ha.