what huge things? handing her back the POA? I really don't even want to see her right now. Well I do but I want to see my W. not this person who seems like they just get thrills out of hurting me. I wish I could just ask her why. What does she get out of it?
When did anybody tell you to "hand her back the POA"? Nobody suggested anything of the sort. What was suggested to you was to give her a CHOICE. Either enter into treatment OR you will release the duties of the POA to somebody else as you no longer will sit around watching her further self destruct. It gives her a choice and sets a clear boundary. Do you not read what it posted to you? When I made the suggestion I also clearly spelled out why you should do that.
What your W "gets out of this" is continued control and manipulation of you. But that was spelled out to you as well.
I honestly don't think she gives a flying flip most of the time because if she did she wouldn't treat me this way.
You are correct. If she truly wanted to rebuild her life, your marriage and get the children back she would be treating herself and you in a much different way. Right now she wants to have her cake and eat it to. You have set no boundaries with her and she has experienced no consequences.
Love never has and never will conquer all. You and your wife both seem to have a very childish view on what love should be and how to sustain it and allow it to grow.
what huge things? handing her back the POA? I really don't even want to see her right now. Well I do but I want to see my W. not this person who seems like they just get thrills out of hurting me. I wish I could just ask her why. What does she get out of it?
When did anybody tell you to "hand her back the POA"? Nobody suggested anything of the sort. What was suggested to you was to give her a CHOICE. Either enter into treatment OR you will release the duties of the POA to somebody else as you no longer will sit around watching her further self destruct. It gives her a choice and sets a clear boundary. Do you not read what it posted to you? When I made the suggestion I also clearly spelled out why you should do that.
What your W "gets out of this" is continued control and manipulation of you. But that was spelled out to you as well.
I honestly don't think she gives a flying flip most of the time because if she did she wouldn't treat me this way.
You are correct. If she truly wanted to rebuild her life, your marriage and get the children back she would be treating herself and you in a much different way. Right now she wants to have her cake and eat it to. You have set no boundaries with her and she has experienced no consequences.
Love never has and never will conquer all. You and your wife both seem to have a very childish view on what love should be and how to sustain it and allow it to grow.
ok i get the poa thing. i get the other stuff as well.
I mean you know what I mean about love conquering all. You still have to do the work. You still have to try. nobody is going to be perfect. I don't expect her to be. But she expects me to be.
I honestly believe you have to w ork at your M and on yourself each day. That's why I wanted us to make individual and family goal lists. She agreed just never followed through.
*little light bulb clicks on*
I think I get it. I've been taking crap behaviour and she's not going to change it unless I do a 180 and stop it.
If she does not change it after I 180 then there's nothing I can do.
But if I keep catering to her and not setting boundaries for myself letting her know what I will or will not stand for and sticking to them she will never change her behaviour because she knows she doesn't have to.
She can just keep running over me, guilting me, and manipulating me, and using reverse psychology to get her way knowing that I'm going to continue to put up with it.
I do believe the past two months were very very imporant though. I think I may have started something in a positive direction.
Beforehand she wasn't even talking to me or seeing me. Obviously she still cares because she came to the hospital and we go out and we ML. The thing to find out now is that enough?
I shown her enough love. I've helped in every way possible. I've been there for her. Now I need to draw my line in the sand.
She's too freaking comfortable. I've helped her be that way. I indirectly and directly enable her behaviour because I keep doing what she expects me to do which is this.
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: james217
She told me she knows I won't leave her. She knows I’m going to always be there for her no matter what. She doesn’t even really take me seriously after awhile of her crying. She just keeps saying she knows I won’t leave her ever. I will always be there for her to love and care about her. That I will always be her friend and there to talk to her when she needs me.
And that, right there, James . . . is your problem.
So long as that's how she feels, you'll be stuck.
You can't even go 48 HOURS without contacting her; how will you ever be able to convince her otherwise??
Puppy
here's a story my grandmother told me about how she was married so long to my grandfather before he died.
a M is like a garden. You have to tend to it daily. You have to show it love. You have to nurture and care for it. When we weeds (problems) come about you have to be willing to face them hands on even if you get stuck by a thorn and get hurt. You have to keep the gophers (obstacles such at temptation from other people, family, and friends who are causing problems) off your property and out of your garden. A real garden does not consisten of just one type of flower or vegetable. You plant seeds (positive actions, memories, accomplishments) and either help them grow (by working on them) or they die. If too many seeds die or you neglect your garden it becomes overrum with those gophers or weeds and it dies.
She was married over 60 years before my grandfather (a preacher) died.
Well I know what I have to do I think. The fear of losing her is actually keeping me from her.
It causes me to cater to everything. She feels like she can keep it this way and cake eat because I'm enabling it.
If I stop enabling it then I can change her behaviour because my enabling behaviour is gone.
Why would she change that behaviour if she's getting everything she wants by staying gone with me helping her every chance she gets? She hasn't had to deal with the consequences of dealing with things or going through stuff by herself.
She expects me to rescue her whenever she gets into a jam. So that's not making her be responsible.
She expects me to tolerate her former P.A. or E.A's.
She expects me to tolerate her giving me time whenever she wants it settling for crumbs.
LOL I had the weirdest dream when I went to sleep earlier. I woke up pretty much understanding what I need to do.
Let me know if I'm on the right track.
waw 36 (spiritual covenant and common law marriage)me 32 together 13 mos. Bomb dropped march 2nd 2010
children SD (8) S (10) S (3) need help from anyone with my sitch
But what we are supposed to do, and communicating in the way its done are two different things.
Consider all the db techniques as ways of talking.
i must be tired. i dont even get that sentence. lol
just a few days ago I almost seriously died and now it's back to her acting all crappy again.
Pretty much her actions saying "I'm treating you like crap or that you don't matter much"
And your actions or lack of response say "I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not even playing, I mean it"
Thats all the db stuff is. There's plenty of ways to communcate without saying a verbal word.
Right now it seems like many of us, this WAW is needing interest from you. She doesn't want to give you much, like many of us... But will continue on with her shenannigans... We enable it, by being accessible.
Draw out the picture...
You may never be able to get her to come around, if she decides in her mind that she is comfortable with manipluating and getting people to do what she wants them to do..
You have to guage this.
Can, YOUR WIFE have a huge interest in you and your well-being. Enough that both of your needs are met, that she doesn't play games with you. That if you have problems she will yoke up to the load and carry?
Do you have that? Most of us on here do not have that, and it is crucial to have that if it is your spouse or long term relationship partner.
Many of them have simply changed the relationship on us mid course and we are not respecting it.
Remember, there are many out there who will like you as you are - and many of your current stress and even SICKNESS will not exist due to their generousity and love...
thanks for the breakdown dude. you and others seemed not to give up on me and it's helping me to understand what I need to do.
Im really really thankful
waw 36 (spiritual covenant and common law marriage)me 32 together 13 mos. Bomb dropped march 2nd 2010
children SD (8) S (10) S (3) need help from anyone with my sitch
But what we are supposed to do, and communicating in the way its done are two different things.
Consider all the db techniques as ways of talking.
i must be tired. i dont even get that sentence. lol
just a few days ago I almost seriously died and now it's back to her acting all crappy again.
Pretty much her actions saying "I'm treating you like crap or that you don't matter much"
And your actions or lack of response say "I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not even playing, I mean it"
Thats all the db stuff is. There's plenty of ways to communcate without saying a verbal word.
Right now it seems like many of us, this WAW is needing interest from you. She doesn't want to give you much, like many of us... But will continue on with her shenannigans... We enable it, by being accessible.
Draw out the picture...
You may never be able to get her to come around, if she decides in her mind that she is comfortable with manipluating and getting people to do what she wants them to do..
You have to guage this.
Can, YOUR WIFE have a huge interest in you and your well-being. Enough that both of your needs are met, that she doesn't play games with you. That if you have problems she will yoke up to the load and carry?
Do you have that? Most of us on here do not have that, and it is crucial to have that if it is your spouse or long term relationship partner.
Many of them have simply changed the relationship on us mid course and we are not respecting it.
Remember, there are many out there who will like you as you are - and many of your current stress and even SICKNESS will not exist due to their generousity and love...
thanks for the breakdown dude. you and others seemed not to give up on me and it's helping me to understand what I need to do.
Im really really thankful
James217,
I'm helping myself too thinking through this. My situation is bad too, and parallels yours and OfficerInNeed among others. You have most of the information you need.
Take a look at this URL posting from another forum. Look at "Jack at April 23 2010", it is very similar to what we are going through and really makes sense of all the madness. Jack ends up in a healthy viewpoint after his situation and there was nothing he could do...
I think I get it. I've been taking crap behaviour and she's not going to change it unless I do a 180 and stop it.
If she does not change it after I 180 then there's nothing I can do.
But if I keep catering to her and not setting boundaries for myself letting her know what I will or will not stand for and sticking to them she will never change her behaviour because she knows she doesn't have to.
She can just keep running over me, guilting me, and manipulating me, and using reverse psychology to get her way knowing that I'm going to continue to put up with it.
Now that you seem to understand things in a more clear fashion it is VERY important you start making goals for yourself AND you stick to your boundaries. If she crosses the boundaries you must enforce them and whatever conseqences she feels are for her to deal with.
Specifically what will you do and how will you set and enforce boundaries? IMO it is important to create a very detailed list to act as your guide.
I do believe the past two months were very very imporant though. I think I may have started something in a positive direction.
Beforehand she wasn't even talking to me or seeing me. Obviously she still cares because she came to the hospital and we go out and we ML. The thing to find out now is that enough?
I am not sure I agree. She wasn't talking or seeing you because she was too busy with her affair(s). When that fizzled out she came back to you when she needed or wanted you. When her affair wiped her hotel room clean and stole her things she called you and you went running. I am not sure here calling you, having sex with you and needing you when it suits her is positive.
I am sure in her own way your W does still care for you. I am sure in his own twisted way my H still cares for me. But no, it isn't enough. My H did the same thing your W did... he showed up at the hospital when I was very ill and put on a big song and dance. The next day he told me he would NEVER turn his back on me again and then I never heard from him again. I wouldn't put too much stock in the hospital visit. When a human being experiences something like death, a major trauma or an illness it is in our nature to cling to something that signifies LIFE and nothing signifies LIFE like sex. I also think your W uses sex as a way to keep you hooked.
I shown her enough love. I've helped in every way possible. I've been there for her. Now I need to draw my line in the sand.
She's too freaking comfortable. I've helped her be that way. I indirectly and directly enable her behaviour because I keep doing what she expects me to do which is this.
Very good realization. I think you need to create a very specific list of goals and boundaries for YOU.
Well I know what I have to do I think. The fear of losing her is actually keeping me from her.
It causes me to cater to everything. She feels like she can keep it this way and cake eat because I'm enabling it.
Fear can really cause us to get stuck. But the way you "have" her now is not good and will not make it for the long term. And yes, she behaves this way because you allow it.
If I stop enabling it then I can change her behaviour because my enabling behaviour is gone.
She might change and she might not. But when you change enough (for real) you will begin to see her in a new light and you might see something you really don't like or desire anymore. This will take a LONG time no matter what the outcome and you will have to learn the art of patience.
Why would she change that behaviour if she's getting everything she wants by staying gone with me helping her every chance she gets? She hasn't had to deal with the consequences of dealing with things or going through stuff by herself.
Exactly. She left the marriage so she has lost the privilege of having a partner to help her out.
She expects me to rescue her whenever she gets into a jam. So that's not making her be responsible.
Well, you can't *make* anybody be responsible but at least you won't be constantly sucked in her drama and problems.
You are on the right track but I think you need to get very, very specific about what boundaries you plan to set, how you will enforce them and so on.
First of all I made it to 46 hours of NC. I did pretty well.
I will start off by journaling and then answering your reply CITY GIRL. WAW and I met up today to discuss a few things. No date. Yesterday was strictly business (althought there was a little affection)
Earlier I bought WAW a bday cake as well as flowers for her and flowers for my mother. I got a small card that was not too sentimental but just wished belated bday wishes.
The first order of business was to get SD8 a “build a bear” for good behavior and good grades. She made the honor roll. Her twin cousins have them and they don’t have a “build a bear” in her area and I did not want to disappoint her. So we hooked up my laptop and picked out two outfits and a nice bear for her and sent it to paternal grandmother. It felt good working as a team to do something for one of the kiddies.
The second order of business was we did have a little party for her bday. Just the two of us. She was really down stating how old she feels and how she has gained weight. Possible MLC? So we ate cake, she blew out her candles for her 36th bday , blew up balloons and tried to make animals and ended up both laughing.
The third order of business was for her to take the tests for job. So she did that. It took a few hours for her to complete.
The fourth order of business was to discuss finances and health. I informed WAW about the P.O.A. I stated that if she does not get help to deal with what she is going through, I will no longer be her POA because she is refusing to listen to what several doctors and psychologists have said. She started off by stating she is fine. I validated and stated although she may feel fine at certain times, she should still really consider getting the help. I went over her medical records with her and showed her what was stated to refresh her memory. She stated she is going to get help by going to I.C. recommended to her 3 times.
I also stated that if she does not stop wasting money, I will no longer bail her out of situations. I informed her of how low our savings has become (still somewhat ok there there) and even though I start work on Monday, she needs to get serious about finding work because her unemployment benefits will run out in a few more months. She agreed which is why she took all of the tests. We went over the budget and then I agreed to provide her with a small weekly allowance (transportation by bus, to make sure she can pay for her epileptic meds, and a few things she cannot afford even if she budgets properly) to help her maintain but I must see her actively seeking work and going to I.C. or she will no longer receive that support.
Around this time, S10 called. I was excited because I had not heard from him since spring break. I talked to him for awhile and then he talked to WAW for an extremely long time. You could hear the excitement in his voice. He was so loud and happy to talk to WAW that I could make out some of what he was saying to her. He was telling her about school, the honor roll, his lemonade stand, and how much he can’t wait to see her. He was excited that the two of us were spending some time together. He brought up biomom and how she went out of town and left him with his Godparents and wanted to come see us. I talked to him afterwards and then we got off the phone. Maybe a 45 minute conversation. We all said our ILYs and that was that.
When we got off the phone WAW was almost in tears. She said how much she misses him. She said maybe her life does have a purpose and maybe she’s not the bad mother she thinks she is. She started talking about S3 and SD8 as well. So about the next 30 mins we talked about all three of the children. She brought up past happy memories with all of them and a few tears finally left her eyes. She did most of the talking. She stated how she really really misses the boys. She started talking about S3 and I could tell she was really trying not to cry. She stated how mature S10 sounds and how he said how much he missed her and when she was coming home. I validated her feelings and told her that’s what keeps me going. Our kiddies need us and we need to set a better example and stop all of this crap behavior and handle situations with respect for one another and be responsible. She agreed.
She stated she is starting to miss me and the kiddies a lot. She stated that when I think she’s having a good time with some O.M. most of the time she’s in her room crying or sleeping or watching t.v. to not think about it. She spends the rest of her time with me or talking to her family.
Her sister called. She answered it and there was a brief like 3 minute conversation about one of their favorite movies on T.V. O.M. E.A. called too. She answered the phone and stated she would call him back. For the first time, I asked her about him. She said they are just friends. Nothing is going on. She was not defensive about him like she was when I asked her about the P.A. (who she no longer talks to) I did not get upset. I just stated a few things about trust. She asked if I had any “friends.” I said that I did. I also stated that I know how to not cross the line with them. She asked if any were interested in me. I stated they may be I honestly don’t know but we just have talks.
She stated how she needed to get herself together in every aspect and surprised me by stating she was going to church on Sunday. I then began telling her how she will probably not see or talk to me for awhile. She asked me why and got really sad. I stated I am trying to work and handle my health issues and find a way to fit my I.C. into my schedule for the anger management sessions.
There was a little cuddling and affectionate kissing but we did not ML. She stated that it confuses her and although she enjoys our MLing she just wants to enjoy my company sometimes without us always doing that. I said that’s fine and validated.
I walked her out and she got into the taxi and went home. She called me and let me know she made it in safely and we had a little fun talk for a few mins. She stated she had a really really great time and doesn’t feel so bad about turning 36. She also stated how she missing her family.
Maybe reality is sinking in? I don’t know
For some reason I just don’t have the sense of desperation anymore. I’m learning how to make it. I’m living life. I’m getting ready for my new job tomorrow. I’m just really focused on what I need to do.
after I got off the phone with WAW, about 30 mins later I get another text message stating how she really enjoyed my company and had a good time and thank you for everything especially cheering her up a little bit about nearing what she calls "the big four Oh"
Last edited by james217; 04/25/1003:40 PM.
waw 36 (spiritual covenant and common law marriage)me 32 together 13 mos. Bomb dropped march 2nd 2010
children SD (8) S (10) S (3) need help from anyone with my sitch
While I am glad you set some ground rules about money, her taking care of herself and a job search I have to say I am a bit surprised.
Bringing her a cake, flowers and a card was pursuit. She chose not to spend her b-day with you despite the fact you asked. She missed out and that is that.
There was no problem with a meeting about finances and child related issues but the b-day stuff along with cuddling and kissing was a big no no.
James, she took a call from the OM who she is in an EA with WHILE you were with her AND told OM she would call him back. That is beyond disrespectful and you should have firmly told her you were leaving as you have no intentions of sharing your W with anybody else on any level. Why on EARTH did you sit there while she told OM she would call him back then ASK about him?
It doesn't matter what she tells you. Cheaters lie and now your W is doing it right in front of your face. Unreal.
I got a small card that was not too sentimental but just wished belated bday wishes.