What does this mean?- the WH's regrets?

[gatsby11]

Boo. Did you mean "still" considering leaving the site? Boo! Sorry, it's totally your decision. But consider taking just a few days off. Or only checking in once a week. Something!

Yeah, they mentioned MC and yeah we tried it once back in Feb. But he insisted he wasn't going to work on the marriage and that he was going just so that we could "communicate." When the therapist heard him say he didn't want to work on anything, she said that there was no real need for us to come again. That some marriages "just aren't meant to be" and that we should both work on IC.

I was upset about it, of course.

They are so truly mentally unstable, they just have to be! He is getting IC, but. . . it worries me a bit because it makes him justify all of this as "self-exploration." Barf.

I'm done with feeling them out. I want to of course, but no. Plus, he isn't happy but he is SURE he doesn't want to be with me. That's what I've already heard. . .

These guys are insecure about their decision. And with my WH, insecure about basically everything!

Well, if this is your last posting, thanks and good luck to you, too. But I hope it's not the last one.

[Piano]

BD says it -- there is no way a man can justify to his family and community walking out on a pregnant woman, so he'll come up with paltry excuses. Cowards have something to cover up - and they'll try anything on. Like Cheaters - they lie, they twist the story to gain acceptance and to normalise their behaviour to their peers and lovedones.

Sounds like you handled the sitch calmly, but a bit confused about the don't talk about him unless he dies. Do you mean, you're done with talking things through with other people?

On this point: for a long time, I consulted other people (family and friends, especially on WAH's side) about our sitch - I wanted to know "the truth", and I though they could help me with new information that was being withheld, or could at least help clarfiy my thoughts.

Then I realised that they probably - if not surely -knew less than me.

I think it's important at a some stage, to actively avoid hearing what WAH's is saying to other people.

What he says to them is for their ears, not yours.

And often, none of it makes sense.

I think you and WAH are closest to knowing the truth.

DB - go to the first thread in Newcomers: Quotes from Divorce Busting. I think you'll see what the correct take on DBing is about. It really helps me to refocus.. and it's taking so much time to sink in.

[gatsby11]

Yeah I realized I kept saying this "dies" thing! No I mean, I don't want to hear he asks about me, he cries about this or that, he's moving soon, etc. I don't want to hear news about him from them at all.

I'm reading your entire post now-- yes, actively avoid hearing what he is saying to others. That's exactly what I mean.

Ok, I'll check out that thread. Thanks.

[Piano]

Yeah, they mentioned MC and yeah we tried it once back in Feb. But he insisted he wasn't going to work on the marriage and that he was going just so that we could "communicate." When the therapist heard him say he didn't want to work on anything, she said that there was no real need for us to come again. That some marriages "just aren't meant to be" and that we should both work on IC.

I think what the MC said was disgraceful. Who the f&** does this counselor think they are? Telling you after one session that your marriage is not meant to be!!!!

[Piano]

Ok gotcha. I do find I am more centred if I don't listen to other people's takes on things, or what WAH is up to.

[newmama]

Gatsby I am happy to hear the discussion went well-but even more that you have his parents' full support.

That MC you went to is an example of not being "pro marriage" or "marriage friendly." (DUH!) But what I mean is apparently there are subsets of MCs who have those labels in their description and it means they do everything they can to support the success of your marriage, not just do what is easiest.

[gatsby11]

Yeah, I'm bummed about the MC. I let him pick the person because I wanted him to be involved in the process and it not being all me. He asked his IC and got the rec for this lady. When I got her name and looked online, it seemed good because they had this system to evaluate couples and determine their chance of success. I was so sure we'd pass that system test!

I don't think she gave it to us, but that she just kind of went off the top of her head when she said "some marriages aren't meant to be." I was sitting waiting for her to say that some are, and she didn't! She did say to him, though, that it's obvious he's running from responsibility.

Well, we'll see what happens. For now, I do feel better knowing I have his parents support. For some reason it means a lot to me-- maybe because I kind of adopted myself into their family!

[newmama]

they had this system to evaluate couples and determine their chance of success.

wow- she was psychic?? (sarcasm)

But Dr. John Gottman does say that he can predict whether a marriage has a high or low chance of succeeding based on these factors: here is a copy (with predictors of success following):

Dr. John Gottman: Seven Predictors of Divorce

1. Harsh Start of Arguments
The partner who starts the argument is aggressive or hostile, is insulting, attacks his partner’s character, uses sarcasm, shows contempt or disgust—all of which lead to escalation or withdrawal.
2. Criticism
Attacking character or traits, instead of addressing the problem specifically.
3. Contempt
Disgust, disrespect, condescension, sarcasm, eye-rolling.
4. Defensiveness
Trying to prove I’m not the problem—you’re the problem; justifying your behavior.
5. Flooding
Gottman uses this term to describe the dramatic physiological changes (adrenaline pumping, increases in heart rate, blood pressure, respiration) that precede stonewalling by a partner. Flooding and stonewalling start to occur later in marriage, after years of Harsh Starts, Criticism, Contempt, and Defensiveness.
6. Stonewalling
Withdrawing, silence, no eye contact, no response, blank facial expression, leaving, being physically or emotionally unreachable. Stonewalling’s immediate cause is Flooding. Stonewalling appears to be an attempt to reduce Flooding’s heavy bodily stress. For prehistoric, hunter-gatherer reasons, Gottman speculates, men are more susceptible to Flooding than women, so men are much more likely to Stonewall. And, as women are 80% more likely to bring up sticky marital issues than men, an important implication of this finding is that women, particularly, need to avoid Harsh Starts in order not to set up the dynamics that lead to Flooding and Stonewalling.
7. Failed Repair Attempts
These are situations where attempts by one partner to repair damage and keep negativity from escalating out of control are ignored or otherwise meet with failure. Partner B doesn’t respond positively to Partner A’s attempts at apology, humor, or any other means of easing tensions.
Gottman finds that these seven factors both individually and cumulatively predict divorce. The pattern tends to begin with Harsh Starts, and this sets off a cascade of responses that leads over time to the various other Divorce Predictors.

Dr. John Gottman: Six Predictors of Marital Success and Happiness

1. High Levels of Friendship, Respect, Affection, and Humor
This is defined as liking each other, being each other’s best friend, doing things together; showing interest in and respect for the other’s thoughts and feelings, avoiding put-downs, supporting each other’s goals and aspirations, feeling affection for each other, having fun and laughter together, being Number One in each other’s eyes.
2. A Ratio of 5:1 or Better of Positive to Negative Interactions
This means that your relationship averages at least five pleasant, friendly, or loving experiences or periods of time for every hostile word, angry argument, or time spent feeling hurt or resentful. And 5:1 is the minimum!
3. Successful “Bids for Attention”
e.g., The wife says, “Hey, listen to this!” She is trying to get her husband’s attention for a conversation. If the husband keeps on reading the paper, ignoring her, he’s turning away her bid for attention. If he says “Huh?” and lifts his eyes off the Sports Page for a second or two, he’s turning toward her—a good sign. And if he actually listens to whatever she wanted to say, that a real connection!
In successful marriages, partners turn toward each other 86% of the time (vs. divorcing couples who on average turn toward each other 33% of the time, or less).
4. Soft Starts of Disagreements
In successful marriages, disagreements are started softly, without critical, contemptuous remarks about the other person (cf. Gottman’s first Divorce Predictor).
5. Husband Accepts Influence from Wife
In successful marriages, husbands accept influence from their wives. (e.g., If a wife says she’s afraid her husband is driving too fast for the rainy road conditions, and he says, “No way I’m slowing down, I know what I’m doing!”—this is a shaky marriage.)
There must be give and take in a relationship—giving and accepting influence, and research shows that women are well accustomed to accepting influence from men. So it’s crucial that men learn to do the same!
6. Partners are Aware of and Respect the Other’s Needs, Likes, Dislikes, and Their Inner Life
They ask questions to find out; they listen; they care!
http://www.bigpicturepartnering.com/docs/Gottman.pdf

[soleil]

^ That is such a good list. I have read those before and they seem spot on.

[gatsby11]

Wow, that information is amazing. So amazing! I haven't checked out the link yet, but I will.

And so how would y'all rate your marriages?

For the "bad" list, I would say that we both rolled our eyes during arguments. Occasionally he would be contemptuous, but not regularly. But since "the bomb," there was definitely #2, 3, 4, and 6 from him. (I don't fully get what Flooding is, I guess.)

For the "good" list, we had #1,2,4, sometimes 5 and maybe 6. It's hard to say 6 since apparently I was not aware of so much towards the end! He didn't give as much on #6 or #3. That bids for attention is so interesting. Sometimes he'd definitely look up and listen, and other times he'd just keep reading. But then I would say "hey!" and it would work out. Sometimes I would keep reading, too, yep I was guilty of that.

So a mix.

Fascinating info, though, just fascinating. I can't wait to check out the link!