Tell me what you guys think about this. Looked like one of our boys might be sick this morning (turned out he was OK and went to school), but I had the converation with STBX about him staying home. Didn't talk about a plan or anything, or who would do it. But her takeaway from this (in summary) is that we need to change the settlement so that she needs to GET PAID from me if she misses work to take care of the boys.
When I saw her in person, I said I think we need to talk. And I asked her... "Do you want to be a parent to these boys?" Said that in this 50/50 arrangement, she's seeing them 3 hours a day, that's it (and she has suggested that they take the bus in the morning, instead of spending her time with them). I told her that I was disappointed in her, that the kids need attention and her first response to this is money. I actually used the word disgusted at some point. I let her have it.
And yeah, she yelled and called names. When I left she immediately called and apologized, and we talked a little bit.
But then - she sent a note to the mediator to put a hold on the final papers, and sent me a proposal about how she should be paid.
I replied and said, why would we not specify that we have joint responsiblity for this, 1:1 ratio of time we would spend home with the boys on sick days. SHe spends a day, I spend a day.
Now, keep in mind, I'm already paying support according to the agreement, and her time in the settlement is 7:15am to 6:00 PM, and I'm signed up to pay half of child care as well when they're not in school.
She's brought this up before, that if I'd need her to watch the boys at night or something, that I'd pay her some rate.
Seriously - she's positioning herself like the nanny or the babysitter. So I called her on it. I told her I need to know that she's going to be a partner in raising these boys.
Kind of a rude thing to say to a mother. And it did get to her (which she said in the phone call).
But frankly I find it appaling that she'd be more concerned about money that the kids' well being. Yeah, I brought that up too, that how dare she talk about my interest in the kids' well being (some comment she made recently) after putting us all through this divorce because she wanted to go date (which she denied that was her motivation). God, I'm getting worked up again.
OK, what do you guys think? What's fair here? Obviously there are two sides here, and I'm on - well - mine.
It's really weird all the conflicting things that happen. After being so angry today, ugh.
I picked up the kids today. Just kept it businesslike. She made a point of telling me I'm a good dad.
And - just got off the phone with her, talking for over an hour. And it's that whole "I don't know what to do with you" thing. Yeah, that, this situation sucks but let's just talk to each other for a little while...
She wanted me to say she's a good mom. And I said, I tell everybody that's the case. We observed that we're both trying to do what's best for the boys with this settlement.
We talked about the early days... and something that really came into focus for me was, things changed when the boys were born. I asked her, is that when this whole thing started, and she said yeah. There's a lot of story here I'm not going to put down -
We had a great relationship. It was really good. It seems like such a waste that we couldn't keep it together. You know, I feel OK now, and I'm not saying this out of dispair or regret - but - what a WASTE. I do wish I could have been a better man - wiser, stronger, more supportive, more in touch, whatever it was, whatever my part was. Squandered.
People talk about the things you learn, that you take to the next relationship. That's a good thing I guess. I am a better man now.
It's funny, you think about what you want - if you could fix it - and would you do it - and I want that girl I married, not trying to fix the wreckage we have now. I've asked her before - ARE YOU STILL IN THERE? WHERE ARE YOU? I asked her tonight, what happened to that girl?
We had a joke early on that we were on the 9-month plan. Met, 9 months later engaged, 9 months later married, 9 months later pregnant with twins, 9 months later babies. I love my boys and wouldn't change anything about that. But I do wish we would have had longer before them. Because yeah, things changed. We had sick preemies to take care of; W fell into depression; yeah, I had a demanding job, etc.
I'm really rambling now. It's easy to be angry, all that. But right now I'm feeling like, this has been so unneccessary, so avoidable. I wish for my part I would have been better at it.
Crap, I need to go to bed.
I miss that girl, who used to be so happy. Somehow we let each other down, let that spark fizzle out, and it became something different. I'm so sorry for that.
OK; I'm getting fed up with this whole settlement thing. Maybe not the most productive approach, but I'm really tired of the "I'm taking you to court" thing, and she thinking she can just dictate the changes. Remember she was asking to be paid to watch the kids when they're sick, which I told her was appaling.
So, over email today -
W to mediator:
Quote:
Please disregard my previous e-mail regarding child sick days. I am willing to use Bill's solution on this issue: We will alternate the childcare on sick days 1:1 and I won't seek reimbursement for lost pay during the time I need to take off of work to be with them. I'd appreciate it if you could add this to our agreement documentation. Bill please respond to (mediator) on this if you are in agreement.
Me:
Quote:
I do not like the word "alternate". I would prefer to say that we are equally responsible for sick days, and agree to the 1:1 ratio of us staying home with the kids when needed. The difference as I see it is that we can decide based on what each of our priorities are for a particular day instead of a rigid "your turn / my turn," while serving the 1:1 ratio.
W:
Quote:
The problem with that is that I'm afraid that you will see your job as the priority and I will be expected to adjust my schedule. Doing it every other day means that I will at least be able to get pay for every other day. Saying that we will just "take turns" leaves it too open ended. Even if we put in the agreement every other day we still can do something different based on each individual situation.
Me:
Quote:
OK. I'm not in favor of putting this in the agreement.
W:
Quote:
Ok, you need to explain to me further why this is a problem for you and you need to address my concerns with this. It is not working together when you just say no. I'm really getting frustrated with this. Do we need to have a mediation appointment on this?
Me:
Quote:
It's overly complicated, it's unneccessary, and I'm not going to roll over just because it's what you want and you're willing to bully to get it. If you want to work together then TRUST ME.
W:
Quote:
BULLY!!!!!! Ok, you want to go that route just because I asked for clarification of your position. FINE!!!! I'll see you in court! Maybe then a judge will convince you of the sweetheart of a deal you are actually getting!!! God, you can be so dense sometimes. I just wanted you to explain why what I was saying was a problem! And NO I won't ever trust you again!!!!
Me:
Quote:
Wow. That's kind of an overreaction. You won't ever trust me again, that's actually kind of funny. You know, in an ironic sort of way.
Do you want to get this settlement signed or not? We can unneccessarily wrangle, or we can finish this and move on.
I don't think that was a conversation you handled very well.
Actually, I'm sorry to say, I tend to agree with your wife's end of that exchange. You strong armed the conversation by ending the discussion when you didn't get agreement with what you wanted. From my standpoint, I don't think it's reasonable to leave such an issue open-ended when we are talking about a marriage dissolution settlement.
The two of you are divorcing and setting terms for how you will handle issues with the kids. This needs to be clearly defined with as little wiggle room as possible for either of you to take advantage of.
If you really CAN work together, you can still do that within the structure of an alternating arrangement.
You by the way are the one who elevated the rhetoric by throwing in the word "bully." I did not get that impression from what your wife had written.
She of course did over react, but overreaction is pretty normal in an arena like this where emotions are on the sleeves.
All in all, I think you could have handled it much better.
Go back and read the exchange and see how far she moved from her ridiculous position of wanting paid for her time off. She conceded, and then found you unwilling to negotiatie calmly when she proposed a reasonable change.
Maybe the emotions of the issue caused your over reaction?
That's just my take.
BIll
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I do wish I could have been a better man - wiser, stronger, more supportive, more in touch, whatever it was, whatever my part was .
to me, means that you still have some work to do on yourself. If you can't put your finger on some of the specifics of your failings, you can't have made all the changes to yourself that you should have made.
Whatever happens in the future, you do not want a repeat of what you're going through now.
The only way to work to keep that from happening is to take the time NOW to fix the things that needed fixed.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
All in all, I think you could have handled it much better...
Maybe the emotions of the issue caused your over reaction?
Yes, and clearly. She's done this before, sent the email to the mediator saying "I want this change and this change, Bill reply if you agree." "Oh, put it on hold for now..." I'm TIRED. Tired of the "this is what I want" attitude. Frustrated about her entitled attitude when I talk to her in person. But no, I'm not looking for accolates. I agree. And I knew it when I posted it. I'm pretty transparent here folks.
Originally Posted By: Bworl
to me, means that you still have some work to do on yourself. If you can't put your finger on some of the specifics of your failings, you can't have made all the changes to yourself that you should have made.
I can identify them, sure. Didn't write them all down here. I'm just mystified as to, why over the years. It makes me worried about the future, yes. And makes me realize the things that need to be different in any future releationship. But at the moment I wrote that, I suppose I was mourning the missed opportunity to have done it right.
I'm going to call you Chief, since Geronimo is too many letters - hope that's ok.
Well Chief, none of us know the future. It's natural to regret not having done things right the first time. So have your time of feeling that way, but don't pass up the opportunity to eventually let it go and move on to the good stuff.
I'm guessing that somewhere beyond the recent and ongoing crap, there is still love for your wife, maybe even a wistful hope that things could turn out differently, more positively.
I don't like to say things that could contribute to anyone on here getting "stuck" so I don't usually say much about the potential of a situation, especially if the person is like you - doing a pretty good job of making life work for himself.
But I do see potential positives in your relationship with your wife. Yours is one story here where I could see things ultimately working out in the form of a renewed, rebuilt situation. I don't KNOW it will happen, but to me it seeems like there might still be some reason to believe that it's at least possible. Not true with every situation I read here.
But the truth is that you're doing things RIGHT for now. You DO have to cross that line where you allow yourself to let it go for good. You have to go through the process inside of yourself that allows you to come to peace with the ending of the marriage, and I think you've been doing that extremely well.
The fact that there is still occasional strong emotion coming out of you, to me at least, is simply a sign that you are still grieving what's been lost. And if you're still grieving it, there is a part of you inside that still wishes things could be healed.
You are healthiest when you are focusing on becoming the single Dad that you are capable of being. You are healthiest when you work to build a reasonable relationship with your wife as simply a co-parent - a person with a similarly vested interest in the well being of your children. And NO, she will NOT always fill that role well, but that's part of HER issues that need to be dealt with.
I don't believe that divorce has to be the end. And I do still believe that in some of these situations, the spouse who steps away sometimes is unable to honestly consider rebuilding until the old is completely torn down. Again, divorce is not necessarily the end, at least until one of you makes it so.
So I see your little exchange yesterday as a bit of misplaced frustration. Hey, I could be WAY off base, but that's what you get when you accept advice from someone who knows nothing of your life except the words you share here. I think your regret and the little sliver of wishful hope inside of you sometimes manifests itself in frustration with your wife over a fairly minor issue. Sometimes it just needs to come out. If you had been in a more stable state yesterday, the conversation may not have unfolded as it did.
Whether or not you choose to entertain any piece of hope for the future, it will always be in your best interest to live at peace with your wife as much as you can. You never need to capitulate and violate something you feel strongly about, but cooperation is always a better route I think.
In the end yesterday's coversation is not a terrible thing. But make every effort to show character, integrity, peace, and compassion in your dealings. Whether or not it impacts your wife, it makes it that much easier for YOU to sleep at night.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I only have a moment and need to go - but it occured to me in the shower the God-honest truth.
I'm still angry, not just over the negotiation, but over the divorce, and yesterday I allowed myself the indulgence of picking a fight. It's that simple.
OK must go - will post later - I do appreciate your though-out and thoughful response.
