Number 8's Revelations, Mistakes, and New Methods

[Number 8]

I'm just curious because even things that sound insightful from ICs start to sound like scripts to me after awhile.

Sorry - forgot to add that while the IC is really hitting some good nails, that doesn't mean you need to act on them.

Like rr22 added, the IC can highlight issues, perhaps by being led, that are real. That doesn't mean they are issues that need to change.

My anxiety keeps my ADHD at bay. Had I not been uptight, I'd get myself into real trouble. Understanding why (which I think the IC is doing well) is the part where I think you can move from acting one way to CHOOSING how to act.

For example, if you know WHY you feel one way when your H says/does something, you can better control it when you want to. It doesn't mean that reaction (bad or good) isn't actually good.

There's an Islamic phrase that's something like, "there may be a thing you hate, but through it God brings much good".

IC, rr22, and you have given me much to think about until my appointment next week. I'll work on prioritizing the things that ring true or that I want to strengthen. I still will work on my reactions and the things I can control. I can do this, I can do this, I can do this . . .

[rr22]

Number8: I guess I imagined him giving our wedding pictures the finger or dancing around


LOL!

Also it is hilarious about contractor kama sutra! I bet contractors have seen it all and a hundred times. Ha.


On a more serious note, it sounds very possible that your father's illness reminded him of the tough times after your mother's death and it is one of the things that triggered him to flee. It's not a coincidence on these boards that R problems escalate around illness, childbirth, job loss, and death. Stress. It's called head for the hills!

[Number 8]

I guess I imagined him giving our wedding pictures the finger or dancing around

LOL!

Okay, so that is a pretty funny visual.

Also it is hilarious about contractor kama sutra! I bet contractors have seen it all and a hundred times. Ha.

Oh, this is sooooo my luck. I don't typically blush, but I definitely felt my face get hot when that happened. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad if there wasn't an awfully explicit picture of two lovers in the throes of ecstasy on the cover. I'm embarrassed to even remember it.

On a more serious note, it sounds very possible that your father's illness reminded him of the tough times after your mother's death and it is one of the things that triggered him to flee. It's not a coincidence on these boards that R problems escalate around illness, childbirth, job loss, and death. Stress. It's called head for the hills!

I think that's definitely what kicked it all off for us. Then he was able to conjure up all the other terrible things about having to endure me as a wife. That was the catalyst, however.

[Onthemountaintop]

Technically this is true, but maybe I guess I have more of a feeling of abandonment. Things got too tough, and he split.

I totally get that. For me, my W doesn't actually leave, she just repeats it so often I am expecting it. When I need her most now, she wants to separate in the house so she doesn't have to be around with my problems.

It feels like abandonment and a real attack on the vulnerable nature of a married relationship. The hard part, I think, is not acting as though it were abandonment because it isn't.

I'm angry that he doesn't think I'm worth the effort. I'm angry that he won't even consider trying to work on things.

I think, these seem like judgements, not actual facts. He has run away, but that doesn't mean he didn't consider it or think you aren't worth it. It might, but maybe there are other reasons. For example, maybe he thinks he can't ever be good enough to satisfy you and you deserve better. He may say otherwise in 'male pride', but I'm just saying there may be equally likely reasons.

I don't know how to go about doing this at this moment. He is determined to go straight down the divorce path, and he's not looking back.

So fight for your M. Fight. Don't just passively wait around. I'm not saying pursue and nag. I'm saying plan how to get allies, look for opportunities, get him to wonder about your life (build curiosity), etc.

I hope you had a good day today, and a good sleep, Number 8.

[Onthemountaintop]

LOVE this: "He's living his dirty laundry."

Do you mean his real laundry??

Example for fighting:
Maybe you could send the KS book with something he loves to see and a note, "If you ever want to try this...strings only attached to tie your hands to the bed" or something like that.

YES, he may not even reply. That doesn't mean he didn't think about it.

Maybe that is a little overkill, but you know your H. One thing that brought me back was having my W offer sex. I wasn't so sure I wanted to work things out, but a hug grew into something more, and it was a good reminder of a reason I wanted to be M at that moment. It doesn't solve problems, but it does offer hope.

[Number 8]

Technically this is true, but maybe I guess I have more of a feeling of abandonment. Things got too tough, and he split.

I totally get that. For me, my W doesn't actually leave, she just repeats it so often I am expecting it. When I need her most now, she wants to separate in the house so she doesn't have to be around with my problems.

It feels like abandonment and a real attack on the vulnerable nature of a married relationship. The hard part, I think, is not acting as though it were abandonment because it isn't.

It's so hard to be married to someone who wants to avoid problems, whether they're just your problems or the problems of both people in the relationship.

I've read some of your thread, and although our situations are different, I understand your feelings about M difficulties, too.

It IS hard to act like it's not abandonment. This may sound silly, but I feel like I no longer have someone who supports me unconditionally and is on my side, no matter what. When my mom was still alive, I knew that she was my biggest supporter and would do anything and everything for me. I felt the same about her. When she died, I believed that my H became the person who would be that for me. My father, humorous though he is, has been distant from me in different ways throughout my life. He's fickle and not prone to sharing feelings or emotions. I feel all the more abandoned because I feel so terribly alone. I'm 33 years old and feel like I can't handle any more loss. However, though Boxer dog can't speak his thoughts, I know that he loves me unconditionally all the time. That does bring me some comfort.

I'm angry that he doesn't think I'm worth the effort. I'm angry that he won't even consider trying to work on things.

I think, these seem like judgements, not actual facts. He has run away, but that doesn't mean he didn't consider it or think you aren't worth it. It might, but maybe there are other reasons. For example, maybe he thinks he can't ever be good enough to satisfy you and you deserve better. He may say otherwise in 'male pride', but I'm just saying there may be equally likely reasons.

Oh, you're so right! These DO seem like judgments! I'm either trying to mind-read or predict thoughts/feelings, and that's something he's done that I dislike. He hasn't actually said the words "you're not worth it." It just feels like that's the way it is. I guess I've inferred that from his unwillingness to work on things. He has said that I deserve better and deserve to be happy, but that just seemed like justification on his part to continue on with the separation.

I don't know how to go about doing this at this moment. He is determined to go straight down the divorce path, and he's not looking back.

So fight for your M. Fight. Don't just passively wait around. I'm not saying pursue and nag. I'm saying plan how to get allies, look for opportunities, get him to wonder about your life (build curiosity), etc.

This is where I'm really stuck. He said a few days ago, "It doesn't seem like you've realized what's really going on. You've been acting like everything is going to be okay. We're getting a divorce, [Number 8]!" I told him that I believed him every time he said it and that I was fully aware of what had happened/was happening.

He also seems determined to move his things out of the house, so I told him to come get them (but I used slightly more colorful language). I figured my preventing this would only make him more determined to do it, and I don't want it to become a battle of wills. It's likely that he'll come this Sunday to pack up. In other words, he completely and totally believes this is over. I am stuck.

I hope you had a good day today, and a good sleep, Number 8.

Thanks. I hope the same for you.

[Number 8]

LOVE this: "He's living his dirty laundry."

Do you mean his real laundry??

That's an rr22 question. He's probably actually wearing dirty clothes, but I took it in a figurative sense. I may have read too much into it, but I liked the way I interpreted it!

Example for fighting:
Maybe you could send the KS book with something he loves to see and a note, "If you ever want to try this...strings only attached to tie your hands to the bed" or something like that.

YES, he may not even reply. That doesn't mean he didn't think about it.

Maybe that is a little overkill, but you know your H. One thing that brought me back was having my W offer sex. I wasn't so sure I wanted to work things out, but a hug grew into something more, and it was a good reminder of a reason I wanted to be M at that moment. It doesn't solve problems, but it does offer hope.

Hilarious suggestion! I'm not sure this would work for my situation, but you've encouraged me to get creative with my thinking. This weekend would be a good time for me to do some thinking and planning. The weather's going to be bad, so I can settle in for a couple days and get to work.

[Onthemountaintop]

This is where I'm really stuck. He said a few days ago, "It doesn't seem like you've realized what's really going on. You've been acting like everything is going to be okay. We're getting a divorce, [Number 8]!"

Wow. That must be a sting that left a mark. Got any Polysporin?

I heard one person say their spouse said something like that because the leaving person expected the left one to respond with anger, beg, plead. I really get this because I was waiting for my W to do it back in Oct. I was praying she would show me that she really did love me and wanted me. She didn't. Cold and calculating, I just got the emotional responses.

Now, things have changed a lot. Not because she did come begging, but because I 'begged'. I went and calmly told her I really wanted to work things out, gave evidence, and that I was looking toward further self improvements, too. I had done a few 180s by then and had begun improving me, so I referred to those as evidence.

It is possible he just doesn't want to let you in. But, then again, you don't know unless you fight.

Again, my W has asked for a separation/divorce 12 times since that first begging to which she had succumed. All times (but this one) I went begging in one creative way or another. I'm geting tired of trying, but I'm still looking for ways ... just not all the same ways.

[Number 8]

This is where I'm really stuck. He said a few days ago, "It doesn't seem like you've realized what's really going on. You've been acting like everything is going to be okay. We're getting a divorce, [Number 8]!"

Wow. That must be a sting that left a mark. Got any Polysporin?

Yes, this one stung A LOT. Ouch.

I heard one person say their spouse said something like that because the leaving person expected the left one to respond with anger, beg, plead. I really get this because I was waiting for my W to do it back in Oct. I was praying she would show me that she really did love me and wanted me. She didn't. Cold and calculating, I just got the emotional responses.

Early in this, when I acted upbeat and positive, I really upset H because I acted like I wasn't upset or seem sad. I changed tactics, and he's seen some real emotions (sadness) from me. I still tried to communicate about reconciliation, but that hasn't made any difference. Obviously, both ways haven't changed things.

When we talked the other night, I told him to come get his stuff (as I mentioned in an earlier post). I was angry when we talked, and I let loose with my angry feelings more than I have (though I didn't say anything that I regret). He remarked with surprise that he had expected me to get angrier before now.

So now, the question is how I should act. Do I act like it's fine if he goes? That I'm glad to see him go? That I wish he wouldn't?

Now, things have changed a lot. Not because she did come begging, but because I 'begged'. I went and calmly told her I really wanted to work things out, gave evidence, and that I was looking toward further self improvements, too. I had done a few 180s by then and had begun improving me, so I referred to those as evidence.

Because I'm not totally familiar with your time line, did you leave or did she back in October?

It is possible he just doesn't want to let you in. But, then again, you don't know unless you fight.

You're right.

Again, my W has asked for a separation/divorce 12 times since that first begging to which she had succumed. All times (but this one) I went begging in one creative way or another. I'm geting tired of trying, but I'm still looking for ways ... just not all the same ways.

I'm wondering if I should leave this (and him) alone for a while. He seems so convinced that D is the only way, and I don't want to exasperate him with my hopefulness.

[flowmom]

You're not going to intellectually convince him to reconcile. It's going to have to come from him. Of course, what you can do to help this is to be the 8 that he fell in love with, do any 180s that you need to do for YOU, GAL, be unpredictable, etc. Oh and detach . Reconcilers, esp LBW, always seem to pin their success on detachment, GAL, and 180s.

One thing that concerns me a bit about your strategy is that your H might be liking the communicating you because he wants pseudo-friendship and enough connection to assuage his guilt. It could be that your communicating and being open with your feelings is working for him, but not in a way that's going to trigger a reignition of his romantic interest in you. Think back to courtship-era 8 and think about what attracted him to you.

I think that if I was more open about my emotions it might feel comfortable to H because he'd have a sense of where I'm at. It's possibly a bit unsettling for him that he has no idea what's going on with me...but I'm hoping that's good because it introduces doubt into his mind: "maybe I don't know her as well as I think I do...maybe she has changed".