i met with my L yesterday. the news is not good...for my H. she made some suggestions and advised me to move forward on a few financial issues that are going to cause BIG problems for my H, especially since he quit his job recently and has minimal income.
long story short, it comes down to 2 main issues: the motorcycle (which we purchased solely in my name but is in his possession) and some debt we incurred will need to be transferred over to my H's name. which for him will most likely mean selling the bike and moving in with some family members, or asking them to borrow the money and then paying them back, instead of paying me small amounts each month for the next 2 years. it all makes sense to me in the "it's what is best for me moving forward" sense, but at the same time, i know he will not react well since we verbally agreed to another arrangement.
he already emailed me back and sounded pretty bitter and now he wants me to call him. i have a feeling this is NOT going to be a good day and that things are going to get messy, very quickly.
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
Set your boundaries, TTA, but remember to keep the doors open for any path you mentally choose as an option...in other words, keep the desire to be bitter back at bay~
i don't want to be bitter at all, OTM. i had a long (tearful) phone conversation with the H this morning and good lord is that man angry. understandably. i'm happy to work with him to make some things easier in terms of the agreement, but for liability reasons, that motorcycle needs to be sold or he needs to take the title and loan on in his name.
he said things like he doesn't think i care about him anymore, and that i don't care what happens to him, and that if i wanted money for our debts in one lump sum, i'd just have to take him to court. he's so angry. he's so far gone. i'm so sad. i did NOT want to hurt him or make things between us tense and ugly. but i do have to look out for myself.
my heart breaks more every single day. even though - he is still reaching and trying to make me feel guilt. saying things were all his fault, or that he has had such a hard couple of months, or that over the last 5 years, nothing he's ever done has been good enough and it's still not.
i didn't say anything nasty in return. just said i was sorry he felt that way and that it broke me apart to even ask him these things for the sake of the agreement, but that this was what my lawyer advised me to do and i had to do what was best for me.
i'm ready for all of this to be over.
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
Was he angry because of the motorcycle? Is there a way he could pay for it (borrow from parents?) and keep it? These would be good ways to show your intent.
Coincidentally, Number 8 posted something about the victim role that my IC went through with my last Thursday. Relationships Explained
The key that stuck with me is that if one person is the victim, they're actions push the other to be a "resucer" or a "bully". If you find and do the better way to respond, that can help them choose a better way to act (instead of playing victim), but they must choose to.
Maybe you can pass on the URL for him to investigate with his IC. I think if my IC had not gone through this with me on Thursday, I would have gone through with a complete separation as my W requested on Friday.
Little things can make big changes.
However you respond, try to keep in mind that MOST men react this way, and that you feel that your H isn't acting like himself at all (depression, whatever).
Try to deeply examine the man. Is there enough there you really love that you could love again if he went back to it (or better)? My IC said that if you do things 'right', and you are sure, you give it time for change to occur, then if you are not satisfied enough, then you consider the R and if it is healthy.
he was angry because he wasn't expecting me to ask him for $9,000 in one lump sum and he wasn't expecting to have to sell the bike. he said he would sell the bike but that his parents will not loan him the money for the $9k, nor would he ask them for it, so if we wanted that money in one sum, we could take him to court.
i'm sure he just felt blindsided because that is not what we verbally agreed to and he wasn't expecting big changes like that to the agreement. he is certainly playing the "victim" role right now, saying he tried so hard to provide for us and to pay the bills and to go to MC for a year together, but that it's never enough and he's tired of it.
he even went so far as to say something along the lines of, i was giving it second thoughts over the last few weeks, but all this back and forth talk about agreements and lawyers and all that...i've totally given up hope. like it's MY fault now for trying to get the agreement that he asked me to sign to a point where i'm comfortable with signing it. of COURSE i'm going to take it to a lawyer to review before i sign it. so why he would get so bent out of shape when i come back with revisions, i do not know. i do know it's killing my motivation to resolve any of this.
he blames so much on my family, especially on my mother. saying she always made him feel like he wasn't good enough. i'm not saying those aren't valid feelings, but i don't see how my mom talking about not having grandchildren led to him walking away from our M twice in 2 years.
thank god i'm seeing my IC this week. i need it!!! and a martini.
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
Make sure to restate your point - you don't want this separation agreement or a divorce. You want to work hard on self improvement as he does the same. You did not want him to move out.
Remind him.
Consider telling him that you weren't ready for MC a month ago, but when you got ready he asked for the agreement and said it was hopeless.
Then, tell him he's asked for a legal agreement by law. You are willing to review legal issues. Blame the lawyer, not him or you.
If he makes a point, reconsider what your L said. This is your life to live, not theirs. The L will walk away happy if you get lots of money. Your H might be seeing this as, 'you're an adult....why do I have to pay anything?' and to some extent, a court may agree.
Agreements are agreements, if he agrees, it becomes law. That doesn't make it the right thing to do before God.
OTM, when i remind him that i want to try counseling or that i didn't want this, all he hears is blame. he says, i know this is MY fault because of MY choices. so my reminding him seems to only serve to guilt him at this point. i say, i'm willing to do MC, i do not want this agreement, he hears, you gave up on us and now you must pay.
i tried to reiterate to him that i only brought these issues up at the advise of the lawyer and it was never my intention to ask him to give me anything i knew he didn't have. this does not seem to help sway his anger.
i know i have control to tell the L what to put in the agreement. i don't have to ask for that lump sum, and i most likely won't. i don't want lots of money. i want my M back.
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
I think you're right...he probably hears that "threat".
Would it be good/helpful to ask him what he thought would be fair or right and why? Maybe one by one over coffee in a public place where he might be able to better manage his feelings.
If you don't want to ask for the lump sum, maybe that is something you could discuss in lieu of him selling the bike.
Retrouvaille had a point in saying feelings are not right or wrong. He feels attacked or hurt. Even if that is his fault, it isn't wrong that he feels that way. It is wrong that he can't see his responsibility in the mess. One day, he'll wake up and say, 'whoa...what was I thinking', but that day isn't there yet.
Are you able to use some empathy-like statements when you discuss these further...like, "You seem very upset. I know the bike meant a lot and I don't want you to have to lose it. I just want a fair settlement if you are sure you do not want to be married anymore. I'd rather we work on the M." (talk about you instead of blame, accept his feelings, offer reasons that acknowledge your need)
Your H is delirious. He walked away, kept a bike with a loan that is in your name, and expects you to spend money on court to get 9k back that is rightfully yours? Typical WAS BS. I suggest you don't discuss any financial arrangements with him without a presence of your L. Seems like the best would be to put your agreement in writing, making payout period as short as possible, and him waving rights for spousal support.
