Pass, you're right on that you shouldn't have invited him to your mom's. This weekend was supposed to be about taking care of you, not about your H. You would have had the added effect that he would not like not knowing where you where. Instead, you tried to make him feel better about the horrible way is treating you before you left. That took all the strength out of your position.
Quit thinking about what HE wants, how HE'LL react, even what HE is doing. It's only making you crazy. Start thinking about what you want, what will make you happy. Nothing will work until you put youself first. This isn't about him. It's really about YOU.
Also, you aren't ready for strategy right now. Quit thinking Bo Peep, Ghandi, etc. If an opportunity naturally presents itself for time together, take it. Otherwise, give him control of all the things he hasn't had to do because you've filled the gap. Spend that time for yourself. Get out of the house. Take a class, go out with friends, get a hobby. But don't tell him exactly what you're doing. It will drive him crazy and he'll have to face the reality of being a father that he's been running from. Trust me that will draw him to you faster than anything else.
If you see, hear something that upsets you (the FB post), give yourself a time-out. That way he can't push your buttons the way he did last night. As Saffie said, you're not ready for big consequences and that's ok, so ignore it. It's hard, I know, but better for you right now. Take care of YOU!
Otherwise, give him control of all the things he hasn't had to do because you've filled the gap. Spend that time for yourself. Get out of the house. Take a class, go out with friends, get a hobby.
I have seen this advice a few times on this thread now.
Sorry, but I think handing your life over to your H right now is a ridiculous idea.
Sure give him control of finances.. let him drive you into further debt
Sure give him control of the household maintenance... having your home in disarray for weeks on end will reduce your stress a truckload I'm sure
Yup, leave everything fall apart in the untrained hands of an addict ... great plan!
You let him near your finances in particular and you will REGRET it
The LAST thing you want to be doing is handing control of your life over to this fool right now.
Yes, backburner him, but do NOT leave the household for him to manage.. you will be completely at his mercy and stressed out a lot more than you are now..
You think not knowing what he is doing when he's out of the house is stressful? Sure, hand the household to him to manage and you will not know what state ANYTHING is in... THEN you will know what stress feels like.
Surrender control of the household over to an addict?
Bluestar gives great advice here... "Quit thinking about what HE wants, how HE'LL react, even what HE is doing. It's only making you crazy. Start thinking about what you want, what will make you happy. Nothing will work until you put youself first. This isn't about him. It's really about YOU."
Do this and you will see things from a very different perspective...
I also agree w/ Allen about giving ANY control to WH in his state
I don't think for a moment bluestar meant for passenger to hand over crucial items such as dealing with the finances etc. I think she just meant that passengers H should be reponsible for the daily domestic duties- washing, cleaning feeding, running around of his own children and himself so passenger can spend more time getting herself some quality time and start becoming more detached.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Exactly Saffie. I didn't mean finances just household chores, dinner for himself and the kids, homework, running his kids arouns, etc. Stuff he's been dumping on Pass so he can run around with OW.
what safflie and bluestar said..And Since you asked, no, I don't see this as MLC. I see this as a pattern of behavior that has worsened over the years, and shows no signs of improving or abating. He acts like a man who wants out, but has kids & $$ to consider, and a tad of concern about how he is perceived by others, though not necessarily you.
It's not his first A, therefore it is not out of character for him to cheat. Even if it "feels" different to you this time, with this A, (the 2nd or 3rd A that you know of..), it may mean he's simply "Evolved" into a worse, more selfish person. Plus, he knows you'll put up with this, b/c you have before. So yeah, a different approach is mandatory.
The element of respect for you is probably diminished b/c he did this before and you took him back. Did you have consequences then, or did he get guilted back, by you or the kids, or did the OW turn out to be a bad choice, etc? What happened then? Did he confess or get caught then? And the other A with you or some other wife...what did he SAY about that?? (Knowing actions and words are diff. If he said his first A on his previous wife was wrong, or made him feel bad/remorse, and YET then does it again, to you, two or more times....that says a whole lot to me.)
Passenger, sweetheart, even you admit you are not ready to give him consequences.
Seems like all LBSers at one time or another, want some "Secret" advice or just the right sentence to say, to get our WAS to "see the light". We hope there an exactly correct approach to take that fixes this terribly unjust sitch, but there's no easy fix. It just sucks a lot. It IS unfair.
Please don't say you'll put up with any and everything to "Save" the m...there are times to cut your losses and There are times that ending things leads to a renewal and a new beginning. Your present m MUST end. It's unfair and unloving. And dishonest. And not healthy for you or the kids.
BTW, I found the DB coaching extremely helpful & specific. I also saw a MC with and without my h, read a ton, came here, worked out GAL etc etc etc If I were in the same sitch again and I could only do ONE thing to help my marriage, the ONE thing I would do if I only had one tool would be the DB coaching. Worth every cent and in my area anyhow, it costs around the same as MC with a therapist. DB coaching is detailed and solution based and faster. At least it was for me and us. Though some of the advice here seems conflicting, it does have some common threads in it. Find those and apply them. Good luck, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Well, since you asked, what saved it last time was this... I GAL, started going out, doing fun things again, teased him, joked with him, acted cute again like when we were first dating. We ML the whole time through, he was attached to her but not as much as to this one. The last one was an EA and this is a PA. Both times he thought they were his "soul mates" and both times he planned to marry them, but this one is more serious. It could be her that's different. This OW could be pushing him into leaving me, being more aggressive. The other woman was a Hispanic woman (I have a point here, hear me out) who was married to a very Hispanic man - they were here from Costa Rica, she barely spoke English. He was very macho, he took NO crap from her. Culturally she was not in a position to leave him. She had a green card, I'm sure part of what she was looking for was citizenship from H, but he didn't see that. She had a good friend who wound up marrying DH's coworker (both were going on at the same time but he left his wife) When I called and left a vms on her phone, her H picked it up and had her stuff packed and on the sidewalk when she got home. She called me back and SCREAMED at me for exposing to her H. None of that was recommended by the boards, I just did it b/c it felt right to do it. I felt I had a position of power at the time b/c H and I were still in the same bed, hanging out together, ML, etc.
I almost feel as if I have to GAL, get closer to H this time and THEN I'll have that position of power again. Tonight while I was out, DSS20 text'd his sister looking for me. It was weird, he never cares where I am when I say I'm going out. He may have been looking for a ride, or H may have put him up to it. I know H was very curious where I was tonight, so I feel like maybe I have more power than I thought. He has been acting like he's "done" and we're "over" but the more I distance and listen to you all, the more I see he's still very confused.
Here are my points: A. He's staying on the couch b/c he's (1) punishing me, and (2) afraid of being too close to me... ML, touching, etc. He's distancing himself b/c he can't trust himself around me. B. He's curious where I am and what I'm doing C. He thought I looked nice on Friday and didn't seem to want to leave me D. He is just so emotional and screamed at me last week how HURT he is
All in all, by distancing myself and thinking more clearly, I can see he's not as done as he says he is. After all, the opposite of love is indifference, not hatred. He's behaving with a lot of emotion in regards to me.
I feel as if I GAL and work on myself for a bit, take care of myself, he may be drawn back to me enough that the power I have will grow enough to be able to have those consequences and demands.
By power, I mean that he will care what I say and what I desire again. Right now he's told himself that nothing I want matters b/c he's spent the past decade catering to my whims. Not true, entirely... most of my whims were NOT catered to, but he feels that way.
I'm still identifying him with an MLC. I have been thinking about it and I wonder if he started it before and I stopped it in mid crisis with my efforts and now it's just back? Any chance of that? I know that he's been very focused on aging for the past 3 years and subtle changes have been taking place during that time.
As someone who spent a lot of time on this question, I finally realized it made no diff in my sitch if my h were being selfish, alien or a full blown MLC b/c he was not at home as my h or father of our children. And it really does not make a diff as to your approach. The issue is hope. You want to have some, and you think if it's MLC there's more chance of recon. I cannot say that is even true. MANY MLCers don't come out of it in time, or at all, or if they do, they prefer their new ways...and new people.
IT's just much easier than fixing what you have. Much like a car needing an overhaul b/c you forgot to keep the oil changed frequently enough, some folks would rather trade the old one in and get a shiny new car...not that they learned that taking care of the oil matters b/c when this shiny new car has problems, they will trade that one in too, and never learn about changing oil...just easier for some to start fresh and always have a shiny NEW car with "no problems..." (for now).
Point is, your approach is the same regardless of whether he's in MLC or is a WAS. YOUR Behavior will be the same. Why wouldn't it? Now, your give up point may be different but your actions would be the same. GAL, make yourself as attractive as possible, be upbeat around him, while you "accept with resignation and regret" FOR HIM, that he wants out but you know you are going to be fine, happy, will survive/thrive and it is HIS loss, (and come to believe that, b/c it is true anyhow and your beliefs will radiate and sink in in time. AND no matter what, do not assume you know what he feels. NO R talk no temp taking and no staring at him for a temp) etc, AND detach!
Regardless of what this is or how you see it, & fwiw, I am sorry I don't see it as an MLC but that's not the point I am making...I am saying it makes NO difference in what YOU DO... Make sense? J
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
LOL... yes, you're saying this. (my forecast from Jonathan Cainer... I don't believe in these but they're fun - and this one hit it)
Pisces, Sunday, 18 April 2010 Daily, Yesterday, Weekly, Monthly, Year Ahead
Your Week Ahead - Love Focus: Stressful situations act like sunglasses. They darken our horizons. They reduce the amount of light that reaches our eyes. We can't see what's really going on because we are looking at the world through a filter. Everything starts to seem dull or bleak. Even the solutions to our problems appear weak and ineffective. We have to find some way to remove those spectacles. We can't just wait until we see so much sunshine that their presence becomes irrelevant. This week brings real reasons to be cheerful. Dwell on those and you will rapidly realise that you have been worrying unnecessarily about an issue that will take care of itself.
At my school, the popular kids were the ones who forged their own paths and didn't seem to care what others thought about them. Their confidence was like a drug - it attracted others.
The needy ones were the ones who seemed to get left out in the cold.
Go forge your own path passenger; sounds to me like your H might well follow. Stop looking at what he is doing. By all means, you must take action to protect yourself financially etc. but apart from that, go out and look after yourself.
Your not ready for dealing with your H head on from how you describe things. You need to regroup. So use the time to find your 'mojo'
Forget about labels like ghandi, bo-peep, MLC, and do what feels right for you. Remember what worked before but do take into consideration that the circumstances are different to last time.
Your H sounds like one of those A peeps who is addicted to romance, ( all the soul mate stuff and planning a M with OW etc.) His detachment from you is a tad worrying which is why hard balling him IMO is not such a good idea.
DB coaching sounds like a good idea though - not only would it offer you strategies, (hopefully), but also some well needed support.
Exposure hasn't work, probably because your H was in the process of doing it anyways and didn't give a sh!t. That makes it hard. It does work when the exposed party is deeply upset by it, but your H doesn't seem to have had the violent reaction that an exposed S usually has. Maybe it's because for Puppy and Allen they were dealing with exposed women - I don't know. My H was shamed also by exposure to friends - although in the workplace he had been quite open about it; though that was done to stop the gossip which he felt was hindering his staff working properly. They kept the secret well from me{ eyeroll}
If you are looking for intel look for proper intel, but only do that WHEN you feel you can actually decide what to do with it. Before you know what to do about it you just hurt yourself and drag yourself down. STOP looking at FB - they are using it to bait you.....and it works every time. Your H was waiting to see you on FB when you were showing your friend- can't you see that? And when he see's you on it he knows you aren't out GALing.
Go find the old passenger - the one your H fell in love with, or the one that likes and respects herself enough she doesn't give a rats a$$ what her H thinks.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
