Passenger, can you quickly give me an update on the marriage length b/c I thought your old signature said something but now I'm not finding it. How long is the M and how long have the problems/bombs been going on?
Also you are not really answering my question about being with THIS man. I am asking, in essence, for you to look deep within and see how much of this is fear of being alone, versus being married to HIM...this matters. Until you have the strength to INSIST and ACT ON your boundaries whatever the consequences, you risk being a doormat and prolonging, not shortening, his mistreatement of you.I daresay you may decrease the chance of the restoration of your marriage, if you enable too much for too long. That's the risk I'm addressing. I am well aware of the other side of this--i.e., too much of our pride or anger getting in the way of forgiveness. But there are risks to either approach.
Most important in EACH sitch is, Which way do you feel you have leaned so far, and what has been working? What hasn't worked? Have you given these approaches enough time to gauge accurately? Is there a line he cannot cross? What would that look like? What would you do if he crossed it? You have to know these things. The kids benefit by a marriage staying together BUT not at all costs. There are other lessons too....like setting and enforcing boundaries that anyone with healthy self esteem would do. And you know, your h may end up respecting you a lot more if you do that. And most importantly, you'd feel better about yourself and teach your step kids a big lesson in life.
You know, I read something the other day that caught my eye: the one thing worse than being alone, is wishing you were...
Dig deep. If the answer were clear or easy, you'd have it. It's probably neither.
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I changed my sig - we've been together 12 years and M for 8. Sorry, I thought I had answered you... I do not believe in divorce, it's a religion thing, it's a commitment thing, it's my belief system, I'm a fighter. I do not break promises. Period.
And no, I enjoy being alone. I am independent. I can overhaul an engine, I've been a road construction worker, landscaper, house painter, accountant. I have no fear of being alone for the rest of my life if need be. I like myself, my grandmother taught me that lesson. She said you are the only one you can count on, the only constant in your life, you have to be your own friend. No fears or worries here - I don't need him. I just want him.
I'll consider the rest of your post carefully before answering.
I have a gut level feeling that H is seeing OW again. He's going someplace at lunch - that may be paranoia as she lives an hour and 20 min from our place of work. She may work closer, though. He didn't come home again last night and doesn't have a key to the apartment. Don't know where he could have gone if not seeing her... and I don't see any evidence of withdrawal.
I don't see very much of H actually, he's pretty separated from me.
What will change in my interactions now that I suspect it's an MLC/affair rather than just plain old every day infidelity?
I'm still working on my boundaries. I'm not really coming up with much. I told him I don't want that snotty tone to his voice when he speaks to me and he's already changed that a month ago. I told him that I don't want him seeing OW, but can't control that and he's as dark to me as you can be living in the same house, so what could I do to him?
He's back to ignoring his children, so I suspect he's back with OW.
I don't cook or clean for him, just take care of the children. He does his own laundry and won't eat what I cook, so it's him that's separated that from me. He doesn't want me doing anything nice for him, so even though I wasn't going to, he now sees it as his rejection of me, versus me taking a stand.
He barely talks to me unless he has to.
I just don't see any boundaries I can set... I really need MORE interaction with him, not less. I think he's afraid of seeing that I'm making changes and being tempted back to me. I know he doesn't want to sleep in the same bed with me because he's afraid of "slipping" and ML again. He knows that kept us together last time.
I think he's with OW b/c he thinks she's his soul mate and I'm the reason for everything wrong in his life. His life would just be perfect if I moved out and she moved in... never mind that she's not prepared to be a full time mom to these kids, lives an hour away, and we have a mini-farm to take care of over here. (chickens, turkeys, ducks)
I don't know what the consequences can be. What should they be? I'll think hard about it today. I can't stop it from happening, right now he's so deep into the fog, he truly thinks being away from me is the best thing he can do, but he hasn't come up with any exit plans that I know of. And he truly thinks that she is his soul mate and everything will be great with her... never mind that he doesn't really know her, she's M, she's 43 and never had kids (I think he thinks that in 2 years, the kids will just move out and she'll move in? Maybe he's forgetting that DSS20 still lives with us) - I just don't see any "R" he has with her lasting, but in his mind, it will and in his mind, our M is over. He's justifying what he's doing with her b/c in his mind, our M is over and has been for years. He's re-written the entire thing to being miserable now. It was just a few months, then a few years, now it's our entire M that has been miserable... of course, we were that couple that everyone everywhere knew b/c we looked so happy together, were always together and smiling, laughing, having a good time with each other... but now that was all an act. He should get an academy award, me thinks.
This is all standard stuff, most of us have had our WS's in affairs who claimed they found their soul mates, etc.
I don't even think this is what he thinks, I think his emotions are a huge mess right now and when he has to TALK, he can only come up with catchphrases and outbursts to protect himself. I know its quibbling, but I wouldn't even call what he's doing "thinking"
Anyhow. You need intel. I would ask puppy about how to get a phone with GPS in his car.
Consequences?
1. Additional exposure 2. Intervention with kids present (the first one didn't help apparently)
That's a start, but you need to have something to use here. You need to stop saying "I can't control him" too. You can't control him outright now, but you CAN influence his choices with pressures from your end. OW is influencing his choices when she calls him. HE chooses to go, but if she didn't call, he woudln't go right?
Control, no, influence, YES.
Consequences ARE your influences here, but you need more INTEL before you confront him about this.
Alternatively...
You COULD just bluff him.
You COULD just say "I know" and act as if you know he's cheating again. Do NOT ARGUE about it though, you would just tell him you know what he's been doing and that's it. He may try to say "prove it" or whatever. Just don't cater to that. This IS a bluff, but if you are confident enough he may just break down and admit it... its a poker game for sure.
I did that with my wife a few times. I had no proof at all that she had fallen off the wagon, but I just told her i did. She demanded proof I told her
"I am not going to play that game, we both know what you're doing... I am NOT stupid... I KNOW how to find out what you've been doing"
she just finally said
"OK FINE, so what! I am in love... " etc etc
But the confrontation I did was purely a bluff, i had no idea at the time.
You COULD try that, but I would favour actual INTEL. your INTEL are your good poker cards here.
When you finally confront him, have some consequences, those are your tools for negotiation. If you have no consequences for him, you have nothing to bargain with and you have no reason to confront him.
If you won't accept an open marriage, you need to have a response if he PUSHES your marriage in this direction.. whatever response that may be... it needs to be hard enough that he will will pay some attention. The FIRST confrontation clearly wans't enough...
I say get your kids involved and confront him as a whole family. But its best to make sure you know he is with her again for certain.
Note, backtracking is standard fare with infidelity... my wife fell off the wagon over half a dozen times before she finally ended it completely.
I do not believe in divorce, it's a religion thing, it's a commitment thing, it's my belief system, I'm a fighter. I do not break promises. Period.
Very admiral passenger. I think most M's start out that way. However if your H is having an exit A none of this matters.
I wanted your reply to be about what was good in your H and your life when he was involved in it in a positive manner. Frankly your reply makes me think that you almost treat your M as a competition - whose going to win....if you win and it's on the wrong footing you get the booby prize me thinks.
Before you find out he's cheating decide what you are going to do if he is - otherwise don't bother even finding out - just live your life.
As for the children - they aren't stupid, they just want a quiet balanced home life where there are parents to support them and run them around.
Your IL's although supportive, sound like they are being made ill by it all.
I don't know what I believe about MLC - I think I have said this before. Most of us have some sort of transitional crisis at some point, I just think how we all deal with it differs. Many just think they can off load responsibility and go back to acting like teenagers whilst others around them pick up the pieces, (like your H maybe), whilst others just become emotionally unavailable/depressed, and others just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get on with life.
It's easy to get sucked into the drama of another's crisis - and infact I think the person having the crisis can enjoy that - enjoy seeing the power they have; personally I would avoid being seen to react to your H's sitch.
If your going to get intel, decide what you are going to do with it. Go see OW in person, (at her home with her H there preferrably) with the children in tow? Show her what she will be breaking up? What? What are your boundaries? Personally I wouldn't bluff it just in case you are making a big mistake. Your H could be sleeping in his car to wind you up - or dossing down with someone you wouldn't suspect - like a work mate. Get your facts straight.
Did I miss it or did you ever get an answer to the Retro question? (Either from your H or about a refund from Retro) Did you make it a clear and concise question to your H?
Just as an aside - when you told your H you didn't want him seeing OW, you didn't say at the same time to him that you realised you couldn't control that though......did you?
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Saffie, what do you mean if he's having an exit A it won't matter? Are you saying you believe exit A's can't be recovered from? I suspect it's an exit A in his mind... which is all that matters, right?
What about you Allen? Puppy? Anyone else? Does exit A versus other type matter?
I don't think that would change my mind in how I handle him. I will still fight.
He is funny and loving and kind. He is deep and emotional and tender. He loves to love me, he shows me in little ways all the time how he loves me.
He’s a good provider. He’s excellent at fixing things. He’s just amazing at coming up with solutions.
We have all the same likes, interests and dislikes. We are very, very good friends. Although he has been shut off from me, and not talking, it’s not always been like that. We used to stay up late talking about our dreams and hopes and aspirations.
We read each other’s minds. We finish each other’s sentences. We have a deep connection that goes beyond any other I’ve ever had.
We have shared history, memories, and travels.
Everywhere we go, people smile at us and storekeepers get to know our names because they say it shows in our faces how in love we are. We’re that couple everyone loves to love.
His children are my children, the only children I’ve ever had.
His family is my family, and my family fully accepts him and his children into their homes and lives. We are close knit and love each other fully.
When he was a child, he would tape himself reading bedtime stories and then play them back to fall asleep to.
He loves to be the center of attention, not because of malice but because he loves people. He loves being with people and having a good time.
He writes cute little notes with puppies and kitties on them and tells me how he loves me.
He’s not afraid to show affection and not afraid to be in public together.
He loves the side of me that is outgoing and fun, he loves the spontaneous nature of my personality and loves to go on adventures with me.
When he goes out with friends he writes notes on the receipts like “lovers wasn’t here ”
He’s shy and adorable and romantic. He’s very, very handsome and I feel comfortable and protected in his arms. He loves to make me feel protected and safe.
He has a low self esteem and tries to prove he’s worthwhile. He’s been a cheater, and he’s lied to me and hidden who and what he is becoming/has become. He is drinking and acting immature and shirking his responsibilities. I love him nonetheless. I know that his actions are not showing his true nature right now. I’m excited to see who and what he will grow into and pray desperately that I get to be there to benefit from the better man he will be becoming. He was an amazing, complex, just awesome man before, and to think he will become something better is almost too much to imagine and I believe he’s worth waiting and working for. Our love is worth it, because I do NOT believe he hasn’t loved me for all of these years. He’s just not that good of an actor.
