Monk, Sorry you're in this situation. I do see some things that might be worth a try for your situation. The fact that your wife does see a problem and does regret that the problem exists is very positive.
First, I expect that your W doesn't really fully understand what sex does for you because it doesn't do all those things for her. But that is about her and you only have control over you. So my suggestion is that you really show her what it does.
Quote: In any event, I am really getting turned off the idea of having sex with someone who obviously has no interest - particulary if it would only be out of some pathetic sense of duty.
Let's take this statement of yours. Let's reframe "pathetic sense of duty" to "She's doing this as an act of love. She is doing this for me. She wants to do something for me because she loves me even though she struggles with a lack of desire for sex."
Now, how would you respond to someone who has gone out of their way to do something for you as an act of love? Would you express dissatisfaction? Disapproval? Resentment? If you did, do you think they would be highly motivated to do it again? Do you think their attitude toward doing it would improve or deteriorate?
It may not be exactly the way you want it right now. But if you want her to continue trying, if you want to see her try more often, if you want to see things improve, you've got to give her a reason to keep on. After you get some duty sex, be very happy with her the next day. Be very attentive, loving, listen to her, share good feelings you have toward her with her. Do extra chores,...whatever you know really floats her boat, go overboard with it. Be so amazing she wants to know why! Show her what sex does for you. Don't hold back the positive stuff. Bury the bad stuff that "duty sex" causes in you. Yes, bury it. The bad stuff isn't going to get you more passionate, willing sex. It will only get you more "duty sex" and probably less of even that.
Make her WANT to have sex with you because of the person you become as a result of having sex!
Second, lubrication, lubrication, lubrication. When you do have sex, make sure there is plenty of this. Think you have enough? Use more. It's not just a matter of comfort. Lubrication is a sign of arousal. Using artificial lubrication when natural lubrication doesn't occur easily mimics the arousal state and the brain can respond with messages of "I'm feeling lubricated. I must desire sex." The state of arousal comes before the feelings of desire for a whole lot of people. If this doesn't happen as naturally as it used to, go for help to mimic it.
Monk: Is it only sex that has stopped, or has intimacy stopped as well. My guess is that if the non-sexual touching is still there, you have a better chance at finding a tolerable marriage. I say tolerable since many people on this board in our positions have NEVER claimed that things got great again. Now in my case, ALL touching has pretty much evaporated. This I believe is even WORSE then just a lack of sex. Dr. Laura even says that women that do not like to touch their husbands are not going to change, that if you as the man like "Touch" and intimacy, you will have to divorce(after the children are gone). And for Dr. Laura to recomend divorce, that is NOT in her nature. I myself have not given up yet, but after I make all the changes in me that are possible, and apply whatever techniques there are to improving our situation, if thngs do not change, then divorce will become VERY likely, and I took my marital vows very seriously. Before I get to that point, I will leave no stone unturned.
I am guessing that many LD women are very comfortable in their "Love" language, like communication, but when it comes to sex and touching, many of them see this as a physical need that is not to important. The trick here is to get them to understand that sex and touch are "LOVE", and that it is just as important as ANY of their needs from marriage. Anyone that says that Sex is not crucial to a great marriage is DEFINITELY WRONG! Read Chapmans 5 Languages of Love and he explans this perfectly.
Monk: Is it only sex that has stopped, or has intimacy stopped as well. My guess is that if the non-sexual touching is still there, you have a better chance at finding a tolerable marriage. I say tolerable since many people on this board in our positions have NEVER claimed that things got great again. Now in my case, ALL touching has pretty much evaporated. This I believe is even WORSE then just a lack of sex. Dr. Laura even says that women that do not like to touch their husbands are not going to change, that if you as the man like "Touch" and intimacy, you will have to divorce(after the children are gone). And for Dr. Laura to recomend divorce, that is NOT in her nature. I myself have not given up yet, but after I make all the changes in me that are possible, and apply whatever techniques there are to improving our situation, if thngs do not change, then divorce will become VERY likely, and I took my marital vows very seriously. Before I get to that point, I will leave no stone unturned.
I am guessing that many LD women are very comfortable in their "Love" language, like communication, but when it comes to sex and touching, many of them see this as a physical need that is not to important. The trick here is to get them to understand that sex and touch are "LOVE", and that it is just as important as ANY of their needs from marriage. Anyone that says that Sex is not crucial to a great marriage is DEFINITELY WRONG! Read Chapmans 5 Languages of Love and he explans this perfectly.
hillockjohn:
From what I have heard on these boards, I am not sure that I have heard of a succesful outcome for any HD man in our boat. Literally, us guys are expected to fix every freakin' possible problem in our marriages and then, and only then will there even be the possiblility of improvement. It seems that of the 5 different types of love, 4 of them involve only emotional issues that can be resolved by us guys with hard work. These are things that don't come naturally for us guys, but if we put our minds to it, I think we are up to the challenge. The HARDEST love language to learn is "TOUCH"(sex). This requires both emotional and the PHYSICAL ability to acheive this love language. SO first the women must get her head in the right frame of mind. Then she must not have physical problems. Then her hormones must not be run amuck. Then her body image must be good. From seeing what my wife is battling, its like the list of potential roadblocks on this love language are ENDLESS.
I hope that I am up to this task. Maybe I will be the first guy to actually win this battle. I am not going anywhere for the time being, so what else can I do.
REad any relationship expert on the web. Many of them basically don't even TRY to tell you how to fix a HD/LD relationship where the man is the HD. Even in Michele's books, the first thing she tells you even before you read her stratigies is to have empathy, walk in their shoes (I think this is code for set YOUR sights really LOW if you want to find a solution to make this tolerable). Unfortunately for me, I have set my sights much higher, I would be happy if she was 50% of the woman she once was. I wish I could be more optimisitic, I really, really would like to hear from a man that has gotten his sex life back to where he wants it, rather then it's tolerable, or better yet, "I realize that there is more to marriage then sex", the total cop out answer.
One thing I have read that Michelle said is that there is no telling which marriage will be saved and which will not. She said that in her experience the (apparently) most hopeless Ms had been saved, while sometimes those that appeared less bad had not. Generalizing in these situations is not often helpful. The most unpromising situations can work out well. A man can walk on the moon. Let's not get negative here, it's not over til the fat lady sings.
Monk although your sitch seems bad I can see a lot of hopeful signs. Most important you have a good r and that will help you alot. Your wife recognises there is a problem and she would like to help (if it were easy enough). There is a physical explanation that may or may not bear results if you look into it. Your W finds sex uncomfortable at present. Well this can be solved and it is pretty understandable that this might put her off even more. So already here are quite a few things you can work on.
One suggestion I do have is that you might go along with her to the Dr. It can be horrible going to the Dr about such intimate problems and I think it might make her feel better if you went with her and shared the embarrasment. Perhaps you could discuss the true dangers of HRT vs the benefits, other options and alternative therapies such as chinese medicine and acupuncture.
What I said to my H re divorce is that I would never choose to have a divorce over this issue, but I am concerned that if it continues indefinately I may make some kind of foolish mistake. I think what you need to get across to her is that what you need is her support in resolving this issue. Would she support you if you were ill, or had got made redundant or whatever? Of course- so why won't she support you in this. It is not a question of her having to do something she doesn't want to, it's about working together to find a way to make both of you happy and satisfied. That is a true compromise.
Jiji: I am trying to keep my hopes up as best I can. It's just that it would be nice to actually hear from a man on these boards that has actually fixed his situation with his LD wife into something great. I need some ENCOURAGEMENT. Some of the guys on here are reporting a BARE MINIMUM of succes and most are reporting results so bad that they basically have GIVEN UP on ever having a decent marriage. Where are the positive results?
She is completely wrong! THe essence of HER relationship is communication. Her Love Language is "Quality TIme and Communication". Yours is probably "Touch and Sex". Sounds like you are giving her love in the language she wants, and she is not giving you ANY love the way you want. Read the 5 love langauges by chapman, he explains it all. You literally will feel no love unless she communicates the way you want to receive it. If "Touch" is our love language, then she must make sure that she gives you love many times a day in this form, and it does not always have to be sex. However, I am guessing that the MOST meaningful form of love in this fashion to you IS sex, so therefore she MUST meet your need for sex in a pleasant way. So if you have tried everything else, maybe you need to STOP meeting any of her needs and let her know how it feels to NOT GET LOVE!
Jiji: Thanks for a little hope. I think all of us HD men would love to get the kind of recovery that suited-up got. I am not expecting this great a recovery. I wish I knew what some of those 180's were that he was talking about.
Now the othe story from Nopkins, I am not sure this one did much to encourage me (Unless I am missing something here). He basically finishes the thread with , "Hey we are working on the problem, at least the wife understands that we have a problem now". I have heard other HD men say kind of the same thing. I know the #1 goal is to get the LD spouse to actually UNDERSTAND there is a problem. This is no small feat in itself. But the #2 goal is to work the issue. The #3 goal is to RESOLVE the issue. So far, Suited-up appears to be the only guy I have seen that actually gets to the resolve stage.
Thanks Jiji, Suited-up shows me that I can always DREAM of what could be, and Nopkins at least can encourage me to keep trying. Now if I could only get my wife to goal #1, understanding that there is a SEVERE problem.
