Looking for help with WAW

[Glimmerman]

mza8

Talked some recently with my W. Have one of the same issues as you...job/income problem for me also. W wants to see changes before she makes commitment to us again.

[mza8]

Hey GM. That's great news. Good that she is at least willing to give you an opportunity. I would love for my W to say the same to me but I don't think she is quite there...yet. You have a wondeful opportunity GM, show her your consistency. Knock her socks off. Good job!

Ok, update on my sitch. What a weekend of highs and lows. I had been feeling a bit down Friday night and Saturday. I think I just wanted this process to be further along by now and got a little down. Good thing for me now is that I can see that darn old depression when it wants to kick in but I don't let it now. Beautiful weekend so I got out and enjoyed the wonderful weather. So I had about a day of feeling down but pulled myself up. Only got about 1 1/2 hours of sleep last night. I was up listening to music and thinking about my W coming over to the house today to plant flowers. I was going over it in my mind.

Went to church this morning and it really lifted my spirits. Went to the house after church and washed the car. No house work today...thankfully. So I'm washing the car and wondering if the W will really come over to plant flowers like she said. A little while later she arrives with a bunch of flowers to plant. I was a bit surprised that she actually did it, I figured she would shy away. Her GF came over to help her with the flowers. At first I thougt my W brought her friend so my W wouldn't have to be alone with me but that wasn't the case aas my W and I had plenty of alone time before her friend arrived and after her friend left.

When my W and I talked on Friday I told her that Home Depot had my favorite flowers in stock. I wanted to see if she would get one to plant or not. Well, she did buy one and told me that she got it for me because it's my favorite to plant every year. I thought that was pretty good that she thought enough to buy it for me and made a point of telling me she bought it for me. Means she must have been thinking of me. We walked through the house together and looked at all of the work I had done. She was very nice and complimented me mny times. My W even offered to do some chores around the house. We're going to list the house for sale tomorrow.

When my W first arrived she came up to me with her arms crossed again. She definitely is still a bit guarded when she first sees me. Within a couple of minuetes she was fine and relaxed. I make sure to make her feel comfortable. She stayed for about an hour and we had another very friendly conversation...still no R talk and I'm not bringing it up. Even her friend talked to me and was nice. May not sound like a big deal but this is the same friend my W goes with to the gym and I've been seeing them there but have kept my distance. So, I wasn't sure if my W's friend would be nice to me or not. She was very nice and just like when my W and I would go out with her.

All in all, another very good interaction with my W. In our past few conversaions we haven't even come close to arguing. It's nice. I took a lot of positives from this today. The friendly interactions are nice but deep down I wish we could get to the next step of actually working on the M. I keep reminding myself that these friendly interactions will help build her trust back for me and then we can hopefully try to talk about M.

After my W left she was going to the grocery store and then meeting her ame GF to go for a walk for some exercise. She's basically living the exact same life and doing the same things before we did together she left in October. She told me she will call me tomorrow. She's starting to initiate more contact. Just don't know if it's because things are getting better or if she's just being patronizing?


Well that's all for now. I can't even make a coherent thought right now...exhausted from the 1 1/2 hours of sleep last night. I will add that I was very upbeat today with her. I thanked her for planting the flowers and said they look great. She asked me what I thought about the flowers she bought and if I liked where she planted them. She really seems to be asking my opinion a lot lately. Moving in the right direction it seems...

[james217]

nice update mza. Progress is coming slowly but surely.

[mza8]

Thanks James.

Quick update. Things continue to go well and friendly. W and I still have not had a chance to sign contract to list house...just scheduling difficulties on her end and realtors end. I've made myself available. The old me would have mentioned this to W that it's not my fault something isn't done. I'm not going there. I am going to make getting this house on the market as easy and stress free as possibly for my W. We'll get it done in the next day or two. I see a big difference in W since I agreed to sell the house. A lot more communication from her. It's mostly about the house but she is initiaing the contact. I continue to see her become more comfortable.

I met with my C today and updated him. He thought things are going well and moving in a positive direction. Based on recent events, he doesn't think my W has given up yet. He suggested to just continue more of the same...keep things friendly. He thought it was good that I'm not trying to take care of everything. My W has offered to help with some things. In the past I would have said that I don't mind taking care of it, not to be mean but just because I wanted to please her. My C said that it's good to have my W do the things she offers to do. It shows that I'm no longer trying to control the situation. My W and I were supposed to sign the contract to list the house tomorrow night. My C said to ask my W to dinner before we met with the realtor to talk about the house and other non R things.

Went to the gym tonight and my W showed up later. She was by herself tonight, her GF didn't come tonight. W came over and worked out very near to me again. We made eye contact a few times. She was very close to me at one point and I asked her if she wanted to do some push up exercises together. She said she was exhausted and couldn't do too much more tonight. She looks good but her face is really breaking out, she looks pale and her hair really got thin. She always got like this when she was stressed. When I saw this I really felt bad for her but also good about getting the house for sale. At least I can take that huge stress off of her.

I asked her if she wanted to get something to eat or drink after the workout. She said she couldn't because she had to be back to help her sister with something at 8pm. I don't think she was BSing me. She took no time to think about an excuse, she answered me right away. I said no problem and asked her if she wanted to get something to eat before or after we met with the realtor tomorrow night. She said that she can't after because she is taking a yoga class at the gym with her GF. I also believe this to be true because she knows I'm at the gym on Wednesday nights myself so I would know if she was lying. Then she told me that she could meet me at the house for awhile before we meet with the realtor (realtor is meeting us at the house to sign the listing contract). I told my W, ok, that would be good. I figured it was good that she didn't try to say no to everything. She offered the alternate plan to meet me before the appointment with the realtor. I didn't want to push her for what I wanted (dinner) so I was happy to take what she was willing to offer. As I left the gym I waved goodbye to her and she waved back.

Seems like things have come a long way since January. Back then she would barely talk to me. I was lucky to get an email. She wouldn't meet with me by herself. She was so withdrawn. Now, things are more relaxed, a lot more communication (initiated by her), much friendlier, meeting in person together, she does and follows through on what she tells me now. Overall things are more positive. When I look back and put things in perspective, I am happy with the progress.

[gucci loafer]

I asked her if she wanted to get something to eat or drink after the workout. She said she couldn't because she had to be back to help her sister with something at 8pm. I don't think she was BSing me.

Yes, she was BSing you.

I said no problem and asked her if she wanted to get something to eat before or after we met with the realtor tomorrow night. She said that she can't after because she is taking a yoga class at the gym with her GF.

More BS..

mza8,
This is pursuing. Pursuing a WS doesn't work. She is giving you a hint and you aren't taking the hint.

Don't do this to yourself. You asked her out three times in one evening. She rejected you each time. She rejected your offer to work out together. This is what I mean when I tell men to listen to reality. Reality says she is blowing you off and you aren't taking the hint.

I didn't want to push her for what I wanted (dinner) so I was happy to take what she was willing to offer

You are accepting crumbs.

[sandi2]

I agree with Gucci.

[mza8]

Gucci and Sandi, thanks for checking in again. Sandi, I hope you are feeling better.

I agree with you both that she is blowing me off but I think she was being honest about having plans last night and the yoga class tonight. That's what I meant about her not BSing me that she had plans. I definitely got it that she turned down my invitation to workout together or dinner. No problem, she's obviously not ready. I tried the advice of my C to try to test the waters. It's not time yet so I'll back off. Yes, it was pursuing but it was such a quick question to her and when she said no I dropped it.

Even though it is crumbs that she offered to meet at the house tonight, isn't that at least her showing some small positive sign? We went from her not wanting to be around me one on one to her offering to meet with me? Yes, I know that I initiated it and suggested several options but she did offer her own plan to meet. As I said, I would have been controlling in the past and wanted dinner with her. I realize I am in no position to demand anything from her right now.

I wonder what has brought about the positive changes with W towards me lately. I wonder if it's because I am DBing and it's starting to work or if it's something else? Since agreeing to sell the house she has communicated much more with me. Who knows? I can't read her mind. The advice I get from my DB coach and C is so different than some of the advice I read on these boards. I asked this question to my DB coach and C, are these positive signs/changes from my W real or just patronizing? They both think these are good things. Again, who knows for sure? I do know that it is better than where we were months ago. Isn't the point to continue building in a positive direction?

What I don't want to do is make the classic mistake of looking for more from my W too fast just because I see some positive signs. I know this will just push her away again. Such a difficult balance sometimes to continue to back completely off or try small things to see if my W responds. My C once again offered to meet with my W individually for a session if she wants to and then try to meet together. W and I haven't even mentioned C since I talked about it with her about a month ago. I had asked her about it and she didn't give me an answer.

It's been 6 months now. Things seem to be improving as far as more communication, being friendlier, etc. I don't know how this will end. God knows I'm trying.

[Glimmerman]

mza8

I agree with Gucci and Sandi. In this instance YOU pursued too much. My wife has taken me up on a few of the things I've asked her to do, dinner etc, but has also turned me down on a couple of things as well. When she turns me down on ONE thing, I do not ask for ANYTHING else at that time. I finish the conversation friendly and leave. I also make sure that I am not the only one doing the inviting. A recent dinner was her idea, not mine.

It is worth noting that as my C and I discuss things, we are thinking that my W may be in more of a MLC situation. She is not just questioning our relationship, but also things she has wanted to do (think bucket list) that she has not done.

My W also has some similarities with Sandi in that she has shown some desire to be alone. I don't know how accurate they are, but most stats I've seen say women are twice as likely as men to experience depression at different stages of life. My W's actions seem to follow this.

The message I would have for you, mza8, is cut way down on the pursuing. I know it gets a little exciting when your W "shows signs", just don't go overboard. If your wife says no when you ask her to do something, I would not ask her to do anything else right then.

In my particular sitch, my W and I are having R talks. My C has encouraged me to do this as SHE brings it up. We talked quite a while one day. Since it seems that MLC (and probably WAW) has some depression attached to it, when she talked about what she wanted to do as she said "because life is so short" (MLC hint), I asked her lots of questions about things we have not done yet. She was very engaged with me in this talk and showed some excitement on her part.

Continue to be patient with her, and certainly take care of yourself.

[Glimmerman]

mza8

One other thing for you. This is probably not DB technique, but I got frustrated once and frankly didn't care about any technique.

I had asked my wife to do a couple of things back when we first separated. She said no. I said right then something like "it's obvious you are not interested in talking with me about this, so since I can't read your mind, I will leave you alone". And I did, I left her alone. I was not a happy camper. I guess I basically confronted her on the fact that I could not read her mind.

Several days later, she called me and said we could talk over dinner, which we did. She told me she had to get past her anger toward me before she was willing to even see me.

I don't know as though I recommend anyone do what I did, but I just thought to myself "you know, I'm not a mind reader".

[mza8]

GM, how are you? Anything new on your end? Thanks for checking in.

I don't want to give the wrong impression that I overly pursued my W. That whole scene lasted about 30 seconds. It was me asking, "Hey, do you want to workout together?" and then asking "would you be interested in dinner or something to talk about the before our meeting with realtor?" It was that quick. After she said no to both she then offered to meet me before the meeting with realtor. I said ok, sounds good. She said she would call me today. That was it. I walked away and continued with my workout. When I left I had to walk past her on my way out and she looked at me so I politely waved and she waved back.

Before last night I cannot remember the last time that I did anything pursuing to my W. I've done a pretty good job backing off. I'm definitely not going to jump all over her just because she gives some positive signs.