The dreaded LIMBO

[Allen A]

Pass all of this on to ALJ please

[4luv]

Husband made his first attempt to reconcile today. I have ignored all of husband's text since Saturday and today after receiving emails and texts from husband I did respond with "When you are ready to talk call me. I do not like communicating via text or email."

Husband responded with "ok" and then texted "I am in a meeting." I wasn't expecting him to actually call, he has avoided me for a week and a half. However, he did end up calling me and I missed his call. I returned the call and this is the first time we have spoken to each other since the morning of the OW phone call.

I decided before returning his call that I was not going to lead the conversation and that I will hold my cards close. Husband ask about the birthday party, I told him the date and he got snappy because I mistakingly planned the party on a day that he had to work. I forgot that prior to all the drama when husband and I were actually speaking that he had switched his days off so that he could make the party on a date that we originally agreed on. However, after the drama with OW, I was left to make arrangements for the party alone and when the date was not available I honestly didn't think twice about the fact that husband wouldn't be able to make it on another day. So that led to husband being upset which I quickly said "I did not have time to think about you and your schedule when I was planning the party." Husband calmed down after that and apologized.

Then husband said that he saw the pics from my photoshoot online (I guess he has been checking on my profile using someone else's log in) and told me that I did a good job.

From there the conversation went to the OW phone call. Husband said that there are no words for him to say to me. He said that he broke it off with OW that day and she got upset and said she was going to call and tell me everything. He told her "I don't give a F..." He said that he was calling her bluff because he didn't really think that she would call. He said that he was not out of town and was at work and that it is impossible for him to make a 9 hour drive in the timeframe that it all happened. Husband said that he has been spending the last week reflecting on all the bad decisions that he made, how he has lost his family. He told me that he wants to do whatever it takes for our marriage to work. He is willing to do anything that I need to build trust.

I didn't respond. I did however tell him that I have a lot of anger towards him and that I have also been thinking this past week about all the hurtful things that occurred due to his behavior over the past year. I told him I would be willing to talk to him in person but there has been a lot of damage done.

All,
please help. I have wanted a chance to work on my marriage but I have also learned that I can't and don't want to accept whatever crumbs my husband throws out. I have been reading on manipulation and honestly I still don't trust if this new "revelation" is truthful or just another way to control everything. How do I move forward...Should I turn down this first request or do I tell husband what I need in order to attempt to work on our marriage and then watch his actions? he is even saying that he will relocate to where I am.

My first thing is absolutely NO CONTACT with OW...PERIOD. Then I would want us to attend Family Therapy together. After that I don't know. I just don't want to be foolish and rush into this and it all be fake.

[Allen A]

First off... do NOT meet him ALONE. Have a friend with you to run intercept if he tries to get "snippy" or whatever again.. he's a LIAR and he has NO RIGHT to complain if you plan a birthday on his work days... he really had NO RIGHT to get pissed with that... entitlement in him is as bad as it is with Passenger's husband.

The first question is... How do you plan on managing his activities to ensure you can trust him?

Cell phone records, internet access, etc... Full transparency on him is a MUST, particularly since he's not living at home.

But what would that entail? I am sure he can easily work around you.

I honestly would send him to IC and FT ALONE for a few months to see if he jumps through those hoops... don't budge an INCH for him... let HIM divorce bust for a while eh?

I don't know about this meeting in person stuff... I know he can think better in an email but SO can YOU.

Did it ever occur to you that his sudden reconcilliation may be because you have a new business going now and he might just see you as a big $$$ ?

Think about that... I honeslty don't trust him one BIT... and he HAS been monitoring your business startup...

[4luv]

Allen,

You are right and those are all the things that are going through my head that I want to ask him when we talk. Why the sudden change...I want to know what he has been thinking that made him want to reconcile.

I didn't think about the email from my standpoint...How do I go back and retract talking face to face? Any advice?

I was thinking the SAME thing about the IC and the FT. I really don't trust him either and would like to see what effort he puts in. He even wants to move to where I am right now but my FT told me to not move in with my husband for AT LEAST 6 months once we decide to work on the marriage. My FT said that husband and I NEED to move to the same area while reconciling BUT he recommends separate living spaces for 6 months in order to see if changes in husband are lasting and not just temporary. I completely agree with FT; however, I do not want to be the one to relocate back to where husband is...I have no family or friends (well, one cousin that I am close with) and I just feel more connected in our hometown.

[Allen A]

OK, I am going to be honest with you here.

He hasn't DONE anything to demonstrate any change... It's just more talk.. he's GOOD at saying what YOU want to hear... he's had ten years of practice.

Given the OW's tone on the phone with you, he's likley running from her now and coming to you... This IS part of the db process, but its only half of it. You being a more attractive option isn't enough. He needs to grow up still or he's just going to do this again. OW is going to be a constant threat to you.... maybe for the rest of your life if you want to be with this guy... this is something you need to THINK about REALLY HARD.

1. HE should be moving, NOT you. HE should be doing ALL the EFFORT right now to demonstrate commitment...

2. YOU keep up the minimal contact and ALWAYS with a third party... don't give him time alone with you.

3. I get the feeling that you are vulnerable to him in person and he can talk you into things you will regret later.

4. If there's a third party there you can remain objective and he won't try anything manipulative.

5. Give him your FT business card if your FT is ok with that. See if your Father OR your FT can get him in touch with a good IC as well.

6. Put together a transparency plan and a trust plan for him. These are your boundaries and how you expect to monitor them. He will share all phone logs without complaint, etc... you need to put these together.

7. I do NOT reccomend talking to him. I would work on your transparency plans and trust plans. These are the "hoops" he will have to go through for now. That and the therapy. Six months of hoops and therapy before you budge an INCH in his direction... you keep up the no contact as you have been.

8. If you want to cancel the in person visit just tell him your parent's don't like the idea.

It really is for you to decide, HE does have to think on his feet in person and in real time phone convo, but so do YOU... it's more tense and less predictable... less controlled for BOTH of you.

I suspect between the two of you, in an in person visit HE will have the upper hand not you.

I would keep up the avoiding his calls and texts etc as you have been.. this MAY be working, but that doesn't mean you STOP doing that.. keep doing it.

I would put him in the hands of your FT and an IC and avoid him for at least six months until he's proven he's willing to do some work. TALKING and PROMISES is EASY for him... FOLLOW through LONG TERM is his weak area... THAT is what needs tested here, and YOU should NOT be the GUINEA PIG for that...

My advice is work on a transparency plan and trust plan and leave him with professionals for now.

You are launching a new business and you do NOT have the time to have HIM RUIN your business as well as your marriage.

Don't let him ruin the business too... Just keep away from him. Give him to the pros for six months.

[4luv]

Awww Allen,

I wish I would have read your post a minute earlier. Just got off the phone with husband. He wanted to talk some more and we discussed a bit what got him to want his marriage. He said that he was selfish and wanted to have both families with his son without really having a commitment to either. He said that it was stressful and he just couldn't take all the back and forth anymore. In the end it came down he knows that he has always loved and wanted to be married to me. He said that another thing that played a part in it was how quiet his new apartment is...how he missed hearing our son and me play together. The biggest thing was...get this...WHEN HE SAW THAT I GOT RID OF MY MARRIED STATUS ON facebook (I did it this past weekend, the photographer showed me how to hide it). He said he didn't want it to get that far. Also with son being sick he said he just couldn't take another blow and that was the final low point when I got rid of my married status. He then said that he knows that building our marriage is gonna be a long road and that he has a lot of work to do. He recognizes that he does have some serious problems that he didn't want to deal with but he is going to see a professional to work through those.

I told him, I wanted to work on the marriage for a long time but I am very cautious and want to take things slow. I told him that trust is the biggest thing for me. He said he wants to be an open book. Now this is where things gets tricky...he actually wants to sit me and OW together to put everything in the open and say that this is the situation. He feels bad for how he messed up everything between his sons' mothers and wants to accept responsibility. He wants to tell her and I face to face that "I am married and am devoted to my wife. I was wrong to drag the both of you in my games but this is what it is. 4luv is my wife and I love her and am committed to her. Our dealings OW are strictly about my son and 4luv will be involved whenever I come to visit or son visits me."

Not sure how I feel about this. This is a very hard situation.

Allen, all the right words for sure.

[Allen A]

4Luv.... he has DONE NOTHING... its TALKING.. he's GOOD at that... he PLAYED you.. AGAIN

Read my earlier posts, they still apply... him running to you because of a facebook status does NOT mean he's grown up AT ALL or that he understands how to maintain a commitment.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the OW dumped HIM? Has it ever occurred to you at all that this is all one big LIE because he and the OW aren't talking right now?

I knew this would happen if you spoke in person... you are typing out everything he said which means you actually believe it... if you didn't you would'nt waste teh time typing it.

This guy knows EXACTLY what to say to get to you and he did it.

Its WORDS... the right words, but he's done ZERO to back them up... which makes them WORTHLESS.

It's not a hard situation... he's made it EASY for you to decide by doing absolutely ZERO to prove he means any of it.

MWD - Ignore 50% of what they do and 100% of what they say.

[Allen A]

And tell him he can shove the idea of sitting in front of both of you. He really doensn't get the idea that he has to DO THINGS in order to commit.. he thinks he just has to come up with a really smooth speech and he's in again...

Do NOT FALL for this nonsense...

[Allen A]

You two will get together with him and trade notes. You will find out a whole mess of more lies he shoveled at you earlier. The OW will make a huge pile of demands on his time, he will try to fool the both of you and it will just be a huge mess.

If he thinks you three meeting together is going to resolve anything when he's done zero work to demonstrate he means business he's fooling himself too.

Someone on here told me of an actual FT that suggested this to one couple... inviting the OW into the therapy session to help the WH make a decision... THAT sounded ridiculous at the time and so does this...

Just STAY AWAY FROM HIM... this is all a game to him at this point and he is playing it well.

I seriously think she dumped him/threw him out because he wouldn't let her live with him.

How on earth can he use your facebook status as a yardstick to how bad it's gotten? Does a mountain of lies and manipulation not measure for anything? That statement alone shows you he has no idea how much damage lies do to people. You need to know he understands the FULL GRAVITY of dishonesty... in his words even from that phone call he does not.

I would tell him he has work to do and once he has done that work you will consider him... But do NOT tell him six months or anything. Just let the professionals deal with him.

I would even have him meet your father and apologize there at the six month point and let your father decide if this guy is being honest or not.

[june72]

4luv! Alarm bells are going off in my head! I want to scream don't do it!!!
I think Allen is so right here. But also, I know Allen would disagree, I think, IMO, you should end it with him.

A sociopathic personality takes years of hard work to change. Personality disorders are very ingrained and difficult to change.

DO you really want to be with a master "manipulator"? waiting for the other show to drop, KWIM?

I mean yes, perhaps this man can change but how long do you want to wait?

I don't mean to be negative here, don't mean to offend.... just you and your son deserve a healthy well adjusted person.

I think it still is "all about him".

I am sorry, I feel so very strongly that he is a seriously screwed up person and I question weather he can really do honest change. And if you should wait for that possible change....

I say total 100% no contact. Asif the man were actually dead. He has done so very much and honestly- he needs to just focus on fixing himself. Trying to repair a relationship with you is like putting the cart before the horse. This man CAN NOT have a healthy relationship with anyone....IMO...