Onthemountaintop, I now have several uninterrupted moments to think through your post and respond.
Originally Posted By: Onthemountaintop
I have to say I'm impressed at your wonderfully positive nature. I've got the ADHD & some anxiety, too. It should lead to 100% negativity, but I find it to be a mixed bag of gifts and trials...
Thanks for saying that I have a positive nature. All I can say is--I try! The ADD can be a good or bad thing. I'm rarely bored since I have the daydreamy side of ADD, not the hyperactivity part. I can entertain myself for hours on end. On the other hand, I lose hours on end because I'm lost somewhere in the great beyond. The anxiety can counter the ADD by actually forcing me to worry. On the other hand, I now have a stomach ulcer. Mixed bag, for sure.
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Too bad all these stories couldn't become some NY bestseller book and make us all rich!
Hmmmmm . . . I DO have an English degree. I suppose I could get to work on writing the book during my upcoming summer vacation.
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I was thinking about a few things, they are just thoughts so take them with caution as I could be very wrong.
Consider: - Your H might realize he may have ADHD or something similar. You telling him or hinting in the past would be like a reminder of how he is the man, but making less money and doing worse.
Interesting. I should carefully ponder how his possible ADD might tie in to his (now-known) feelings about the differences in our earnings and my steady career.
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- If you think your life is bad, you might think depression is just acceptance of a screwed up situation.
Another interesting idea. And perhaps his leaving is deciding he no longer has to "accept" a screwed-up situation.
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- I feel like running when I screw up. This is the hardest part in my sitch. I don't want to stay - I want to run away. Whether your H has ADHD or not, it may be that being apart has made him feel that he's no good at that game called M to you. Do you think you've been critical (even validly) over his life choices?
Why is running such an appealing option??? That's hard for me to understand intellectually and emotionally.
I'm sure he's felt unsuccessful in some ways (specifically--not being able to comfort me when my mother died, not following through on projects, promising to do things that never got done). Fortunately, I can't say that I've ever been what someone would call a nag about things. Only once did I express concern (probably about a year ago) about his changing jobs. It probably didn't matter what I said or how I said it. It still ignited some defensiveness, and I backpedaled as quickly as I could.
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- If you made a list, what would your top 10 reasons be for him to want to leave? Have you meaningfully addressed them? How do you know that your reasons would be his, too?
I'll list a few things here that caused him to want to leave (in no particular order): *my lack of emotional sharing *the house never feeling like "his"; my reluctance to part with some things that were my mother's *my over-involvement with work (including but not limited to bringing it home) *my "lack of interest" in his hobbies or work (as perceived by him) *money (not my feelings about how much he made; more along the lines of my maintaining a separate checking account in addition to our joint account)
I've addressed them as such (respectively): *I've become more open with H emotionally. I have my second IC appointment tomorrow, and I'm sure to learn even more ways to avoid internalizing my feelings. *I've packed up, donated, or thrown away some things that could go. I'm working on changing the appearance of the inside of the house (new hardwood floors, painting some rooms, rearranging furniture, etc.). The things I've changed have been things he and I discussed months ago, so I'm creating something that he would like. Also, I'll like the changes whether he lives here or not. *I've decided to let some things with work go or wait. I don't bring nearly as much home, and I've been delegating more to my assistant (which was sooooo hard for me!). I have scarcely discussed work with H when we've talked. *When we've talked, I've asked about specific things about his work or leisure activities. I listen to his responses. *I have begun using the joint account for everything.
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- Have you figured out what emotional needs of yours (and your husbands) haven't been met or poorly met? Were they met early in your R before marriage?
Through a book I've been reading, I've been working on his and my emotional needs and how they were or weren't met. I think they were met well before we married and even in the first year of our marriage. Just after we'd been married a year, my mother died. I don't think I was concerned with anyone or anything (including myself) for a long time after that. Overall, I'm becoming more aware of both our needs and how they could be better met if given the chance.
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- Are you willing to do a 180 and show him physcial touch if he comes over? In other words, let him sit and then sit next to him in a way that says you are ready for a sexual relationship.
I am more than willing to do a 180 and show him physical touch. I just want the opportunity!
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- Did you directly invite him back?
Yes, I told him that I wanted to come back so that we could work on things. He said that he didn't think things would ever change. He said (several times) that the easiest thing to do would be to come back, but he didn't want to come back and spend the rest of his life being unhappy.
However, to repeat what I've said and thought before, I can't imagine his NOT being happier being out of this house. He's staying at his mother's house in his childhood bedroom! He has none of the responsibilities that he had when he resided here! Who wouldn't be happier?
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- Have you responded to his text and told him that you don't blame him for the termites? , I've read and I would agree that shame is a big issue in men. I remember trying to reconstruct our gate. Well, my W told me how awful it was and that I made it worse. She's right, but I did it trying to make it easier for her to open. I felt very embarrased and ashamed that I couldn't do it right and that became anger against her. Those interactions again and again cloud my judgement of what she says to the point that I misread things she says. I'm guessing again, but if your H in depression, he may be misreading things. If he seems offended, ask yourself if it would hurt to respond with reassuring (but not begging) comments.
I did respond to him. I said, "My dad doesn't think this is your fault. He didn't even utter a word about it. It made him use swear words because I have this infestation, not because of you. You did very well with the hand you had been dealt. I'm sorry you inherited such a mess. I appreciate all you did to help me and take care of the house." I don't know if this made a difference, though I'm sure he still felt some self-inflicted guilt.
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Again, these are just thoughts. I'm just wondering and hoping to give you something to spark a way to make more deep interactions.
Thanks for your thoughts. I like things like this to get me thinking. I appreciate the time you put in to this post.
Why is running such an appealing option??? That's hard for me to understand intellectually and emotionally.
That's a failure response. I didn't know about my ADHD until I was 28. I had lots of evidence of having the ability to do a lot and understand many things. Yet, I found many problems in my life applying that. So, lots of failures. Imagine drawing something, and 1/2 way through you spill a bottle of ink on it. Wouldn't you want a new paper? The bigger the ink blot, the more the agitation and apprehension when trying to move forward. Maybe the hyperactivity leads to this, or maybe it is an exaggeration in a male response. Maybe, just me! I'd rather fight it and win, but when I'm sure I can't win or I've got so much on my plate I think everything is going down the tubes, then running away/starting again on a few of those things make the others more manageable.
You don't need to say you're not happy. Sometimes, it is on people's faces. Many other times, it is so obvious to the self that it is easy to beat oneself up about it.
*my lack of emotional sharing Is it possible that to him, sharing looks different that it does for you? When you were sharing lots AND he seemed deeply happy/moved, how were you sharing? When you shared and he wasn't responding, was it the same way of sharing?
*the house never feeling like "his"; my reluctance to part with some things that were my mother's That sounds very internal - a problem for him to deal with. Getting a house as an inheritance is a dream for most! How do you know your rework of the house is what he wants? For me, W and I are talking about moving to get away from the bad memories. This has been a bigger area of conflict, because she doesn't care about doing the house planning with me. I want to look at the walls of our house and think, WE did this together. I might have more of an influence, but without her influence, I will be resentful.
I have the work problem, too. Does he have a job he can just leave behind him? With my ADHD, I have the touch of anxiety, too. I find many others with ADHD get more of the 'fun' part that comes from impusivity (etc)...
Hobbies...my W has none (that I can figure out, at least). The D talks have led her to begin developing some. Hobbies are an emotional need ('recreational companionship') and that's one major wall I have with my W. I want to have fun with her, because if I can't, I need other friendships to do them with. Friendships take time, so then I have less time at home. Less time at home means more fighting... If you end off getting to a point of 'dating' again, maybe you could ask him for something he's dreamed of doing (bungee jumping, etc) and would like to try together.
Great work on the work! I need an assistant....
Why not suggest cancelling the separate account so that "he can better understand the financial situation during this tough time" or something?
Did you apologize for being overfocused on yourself during the year after the death? If not, and the timing is right, you could try, "I've never really apologized for putting you through a rough year/two...". Apologies don't mean that you did it on purpose, it means you acknowelge the hurt it caused.
Did you ask about dating again now or in a month from now? Telling him that you'd like a chance to know that you both tried.
I wonder if his mom would kick him out? IF she is as supportive as she said, maybe you could offer an in-house separation. If he still feels that way in 4 or 6 months, you would help him financially if he needed it. Asking hard questions like this is trying to make an opportunity where it doesn't exist.
I'm imagining, "Hi MIL. I know you mentioned that you have hopes for H's happiness with me. I'm really trying to understand him better and to give our M one last try. I should've seen it coming, but I guess I didn't realize how unhappy we had both become. I wanted to offer H an in-house separation, but I needed to know if you support this - you will always know him best....do you have any idea on how I could present this? I know he's comfortable living at home, and I can't compete with that!"
Why do vacations have to end? Today, it was business as usual. Back to the real world. I don't think I like the real world as much as I like vacation world.
On the whole, I'm pleased with how I spent the vacation. Here's a brief summary of accomplishments or time wasters:
*mowed lawn that increased exponentially in size as time wore on *cleaned turtle aquarium; allowed turtle to play in the sun while I cleaned his home (he's faster than I remembered) *pulled ridiculous amount of weeds *planted bulbs and seeds with assistance from 5-year-old neighbor; have no hopes of them actually surviving or sprouting *attended first IC session; have yet to emerged a changed person but expecting great things *worked word puzzles while I got a pedicure *acted as hostess to new pest control friends from Monday to Saturday. EVERY DAY. *read from ever-growing library of self-help books and journaled, focusing on personal development and introspection *watched countless hours of Law & Order reruns *painted hallway and hallway ceiling *began to paint living room (halfway done at present) *made futile wishes that possum would be captured *got haircut and had glimmering highlights touched up *endured family gathering with father, 15-year-old half-brother, grandmother, grandmother's boyfriend, and lunatic uncle *arranged for dishwasher to be repaired tomorrow *let Boxer dog run freely, commune with nature, and play with neighborhood friends *consumed respectable amounts of brownies and wine, though not at the same time
It was a great week. Only six more weeks until I have off for 8 more weeks. And the countdown is on . . .
Onthemountaintop, you've created yet another thought-provoking post. It's bedtime for Boxer dog and me (I have to be at work at 7 a.m. each day. He has nowhere to be but likes his rest), so this is one I'll have to pick up tomorrow. Thanks for responding and offering more questions/thoughts.
If you get a chance, will you let us know if the IC had any wisdom this week to share that seemed new to you about your sitch or how to handle it? Was it work on you, detach, detach, or what?
Another great IC session today. I have just enough time to share some revelations and thought-provoking moments before dinnertime. After dinner, it's back to work on responding to Onthemountaintop's post from yesterday.
Session notes [and I really mean notes. I bring a spiral and pen with me and actually take notes.]
*IC said the focus of today would be my anger, which has been making itself known in the last week or so *IC reminded me as a disclaimer that this situation isn't about me; I'm not to blame; it's not my fault; there's only so much I can do *After discussing H's poor ability to follow through, IC asked me to consider my expectations in the marriage. In what ways am I playing into or did I play into a desire/fantasy that H could change and be able to be better at follow through? She said this is especially important for me to consider since I've known him for a few decades *IC said much of this is painful and difficult for me because I clearly see the potential for what might be or who he truly is, but he doesn't see the potential in himself (or our marriage, for that matter) *IC talked about my personal characteristics, my personality traits, my patience, and my career success. Because of these things, it's harder for me to comprehend and accept the things that have happened. She also asked me to look at what I've been willing to tolerate from H *She told me to remember to honor my feelings and realize that I'm entitled to them. It's okay that I feel angry, frustrated, abandoned, betrayed, and sad. I don't have to feel guilty for having those feelings, try to ignore them, or tell myself to get over it. TOUGH LESSON FOR ME!! *She asked me how I would feel or react if my situation had happened to a friend. What would I think? What would I do? What would I say? After I responded, she said that I should remember all that I said and have the same compassion for myself. *After listening to me describe my feelings and what is behind them, IC asked me some mind-blowing questions. In what ways do I foster dependency? In what ways has H been dependent? WHOA! Never thought about it before! *IC then asked me to consider on what our marriage was based. What enables any dependent behavior to continue? *IC said that it is common in our culture, but it's clear to her that I'm an over-functioner. She said two books describe behavior like this: The Dance of Anger and The Dance of Intimacy. She further said that it is easy to get angry or resentful when you are the one over-doing or over-functioning. The greater danger is when you begin to function emotionally for others *IC asked me to think about what satisfaction comes from having someone be dependent on you. If it feels good to be needed, then what is the motivation behind being needed? There's a difference in altruism and selfishness when it comes to being "needed" *She asked me to truly consider what it feels like to be dependent on another person. Am I dependent in any way on H? *As we were closing, she told me to remember that not everyone can think as reasonably or rationally as I do. Therefore, I should never assume that others can do this like I can *She asked me to think about ways I possibly set myself up to be hurt or for being vulnerable *Finally, IC encouraged me to honor myself and told me not to demand or expect too much of myself. I need to focus still on getting rest and eating regularly
I enjoyed my time with her, and I look forward to thinking and journaling about these things. She and I meet again next Tuesday. Not to be too Kafka-esque, but my metamorphosis has begun.
Wow 8, That's some good note taking. I am seeing an IC as well but don't remember half if what was covered by the time I get home. Good work!
Me: 45 WAW: 45 | M22 | T25 | No Kids Nov 09 W Filed | Dec 09 Separation Mar 17 2010 Divorce Papers Signed | Divorce Hearing Cancelled Moved back home May 2010 PA Confirmed June 2010 | W left Dec 7 2010
mrbt, I wasn't kidding when I said I took notes! I know that I won't remember it all if I just listen (I'm a read-write/visual learner, not an auditory learner), so my lifelong compensation has been to take copious notes. I told the IC during our first session last week that I am a note-taker, and I asked if she minded. She did not mind at all.
She knew that I'd come prepared with my spiral again today, and she even politely paused a few times so that I could write after she had spoken for a few minutes. She also told me that I could take all the notes I want as long as I pause to talk (to reflect, to process feelings, to articulate emotions, etc.). Honestly, I would be happy just to listen to her lecture, but that's not part of the plan!
I had a few moments of anxiety today (including fear about my marriage's future), but intelligent and helpful IC's words came back to me.
When I would feel anxious, I would repeat this to myself: I cannot control what he does. His feelings are not my fault or my problem. If I don't take care of me, then no one will. He is not emotionally well, but that is not my fault. I can only control myself and how I react to things.
I don't want to sound surprised, but it actually made me feel better each time I said those things to myself! It was immediately relieving.
I usually have a positive attitude and try to have good days at work, but today was particularly good. My assistant and I laughed a lot and had a great time working.
