No - I agree with you Puppy that he does look for this possible problem. I just think the focus has to be on the 180s and looking for what is wrong first.
So what if he found there was an EA/PA? Now what? For her to leave the EA/PA, doesn't she have to have something to come back to?
If he got caught snooping, what would he say? I asked my W once if she was thinking about anyone else. She said no. I accepted that. Had she felt I was spying/snooping, we'd just have less trust to work with between us.
I couldn't disagree with you more, OTMT. I'll take your points one at a time:
I just think the focus has to be on the 180s and looking for what is wrong first.
If a tree crashes thru the roof of your house, you need to first remove the tree before you begin to repair any damage (Tuppy). Yes, a betrayed spouse should simultaneously begin to work on making themselves the better option, but even THAT can be aided by good intel. For example, a keylogger can turn up what emotional needs a OM/OW might be filling of the wayward spouse, and the betrayed spouse can react to that.
So what if he found there was an EA/PA? Now what? For her to leave the EA/PA, doesn't she have to have something to come back to?
Now what? Now you move to protect yourself, and your family. You firewall your finances. You get an initial legal consultation, to better understand what your rights, responsibilities and vulnerabilities are. You begin to study every book you can get your hands on about affairs and infidelity, to know what it is you're dealing with. How can it NOT help to better understand the threat?
If he got caught snooping, what would he say?
So don't get caught. Seriously, if you do this right, you can get weeks if not MONTHS of good intel before, eventually, getting caught. However, if he DOES get caught, he should say "I was trying to protect myself (and, if appropriate), and our family." And/or "Everything I've done, I've done to try and fight for our marriage (and, if appropriate) and our family."
I asked my W once if she was thinking about anyone else. She said no. I accepted that.
"Big Bird" (sticking one's head in the sand) naivete is no way to fight for a marriage, in my opinion. You can't just ask the cheating spouse, because -- if they ARE cheating -- they will lie about it. CHEATERS LIE -- period. Just because you decided to accept it doesn't mean it's the best advice to give others.
This is what I tell people: determine if it (an affair) is a dealbreaker for you or not. If it IS, then gather the necessary evidence and do what you need to do. If it's NOT, and you think you can get past it, then either gather the necessary evidence, confront and expose and try to bust the affair and begin to work at reconciling your marriage . . . or . . . just assume they ARE having an affair, and operate from that assumption (I'm saying, if all the signs are there). In my experience, they are in the overwhelming majority of cases anyway (65-90%?), so this is the safest assumption.
Quote:
Had she felt I was spying/snooping, we'd just have less trust to work with between us.
Trust must be EARNED, O.T.M.T., and this goes to "reasonable cause." If you have reasonable cause to believe that your marriage and your family are being threatened by a PREDATOR (and that's what an OM/OW is, a PREDATOR), then not only do you have a RIGHT to investigate, I would contend that you have a RESPONSIBILITY -- esp. as a man (and yes, maybe that's chauvinistic, but whatever... I stand by it). It's your job to protect your family!
Ronald Reagan once famously said, about the Soviets, "Trust -- but verify." I think you enter a marriage making a mutual vow to each other to love, honor, cherish and trust, and that should be your stance until such time as you have reasonable cause to believe your marriage is being threatened. At that time, you should move immediately to determining the TRUTH of what's going on, and that must be done INDEPENDENTLY and not just by asking them. If they're NOT cheating, then great -- you've determined that they aren't. If they ARE, then you enter a phrase where trust must again be EARNED, after they've ended their affair, agreed to no-contact and full transparency, and shown themselves to be trustworthy again.
As you can tell, I feel very strongly about this, and it's not just my opinion. It's consistent with the advice and research of the best infidelity experts out there (Harley, Glass, Spring, Tuppy, McGraw, others) and even MWD herself advocates a keylogger in certain situations.
I just don't know where this whole "I asked her, and she said no, and so I decided to trust her" thing got started, but it's dangerous, with all due respect.
I don't agree with this full court press trying to convince this guy that his wife is having an affair.
Pre-crisis, most of we guys would beat the crap out of anyone who suggested that our wife was likely sleeping around. Suddenly here, since they expressed their intention to end the marriage, we literally leap to the conclusion that there is automatically another person involved.
And yeah, I know how likely it is.
But I don't think it's fair to start planting thoughts in peoples minds. They'll figure it out soon enough, especially if they begin to see truly tangible signs suggesting so.
All of us who have been through the wars here are jaded in some respect, some more than others. That doesn't give us the right or even obligation to pass that jadedness on to the newcomers.
Dad, it is true that many of the stories on this particular forum wind up involving other people. Sometimes it was happening before they drop the bomb, sometimes it happens after the bomb is dropped. Let's hope that's not the case with you.
I think it's enough to tell you to keep your eyes open and don't treat your wife with the rose colored glasses. Eyes wide open and trust your gut.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Thanks again everyone. On th way home now. I tried emails with her today and found her responses very short. I just don't know where this is going.
I didn't have opportinity to hug her when % arrived home last night but kissed her cheek this morning. I'm just trying to do the right thing and respond with kindess rather than hurt or anger.She did ask why I have'nt been eating and loose my lunch every morning.....I tgought the answer was obvious but just told her my guts were crankt.
Sorry for the errors but I'm driving at the moment. I hope to receive the books tomorrow and should also have an audio program from another company. I left a message with the MC today for an appointment.....sooner the better.
Sorry for the errors but I'm driving at the moment. I hope to receive the books tomorrow and should also have an audio program from another company. I left a message with the MC today for an appointment.....sooner the better.
I'm just trying to do the right thing and respond with kindess rather than hurt or anger.She did ask why I have'nt been eating and loose my lunch every morning.....
Seems like there's some kindness from both of you. That isn't rekindled love, but it is a place to start. Keep your hopes high, but try not to get expectations up with them. The road you're on might be a month, or a year. Be strong, think carefully, and enoy your reading tomorrow~
All of us who have been through the wars here are jaded in some respect, some more than others. That doesn't give us the right or even obligation to pass that jadedness on to the newcomers.
Bworl,
I don't share my "jadedness." I share my experience and my judgment, for however much they are worth. Sadly, I'm right more often than I'm wrong. I sincerely wish it weren't so.
DCB -- like all posters -- are free to glean what they will (or won't) from that experience and judgment. I do feel led to share what I do; I'm sorry you disagree so strongly. All I've encouraged him to do is to verify independently, one way or another; I'm not sure why that is such a controversial stance. Everything that I advocate is backed up by the best infidelity authors/researchers/counselors out there. It may not be a unanimous opinion (more like 60/40), but it's hardly radical.
I've read this guys post. I see nothing anywhere that suggested in any significant way that there was an extramarital relationship going on.
My opinion may differ from yours - that's not a problem. I respect your level approach to the matter. In this case I happen to feel it's a case of creating a problem that does not appear to exist just yet.
The demise of a marriage is tough enough to deal with, especially early on. I don't see any reason to make matters worse by suggesting an even uglier scenario that simply has not reared it's head yet.
Yes, we all acknowledge that it is far from rare for such a thing to unfold. But let's at least have a good reason to suggest that it's so before heading down that path.
You know I respect all that you do here and your take on how best to deal with such a bad situation.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
i use aobo for mac. It's amazing for those with macs. Sends you a file every 30 minutes with a text log, websites visited and also screenshot of the computer's screen every two minutes.
If it's a pc, Spector pro is similar to aobo
Also google. There is one that will even log all passwords. Meaning you'd be able to check her email accounts.
Good luck. And plead keep in mind that you may discover some things that'll distress you so be sure to check with us here before doing anything
Also it's not detectable. You have to program a keystroke sequence and it'll unlock and access the program which you would then access by password. But you won't be able to see the program if you went looking for it.
gl
M: 32 H: 34 S:5 D: 3 D: 1 Together 11 years Married 7 Bomb: PA/EA 8/13/09 (for 1 year on and off) ILYBINILWY: 08/09
"The end of suffering happens with the end of wanting." -Laura Munson
