Bill, do you remember a guy that used to post here three months ago, whose wife had been looking at apartments to move to because she could not stand the R any longer? They were headed for separation and divorce. I think he was an engineer from CA, worked on computers or something... you know, those Centrino thinggies... Two little kids... Can't quite remember the handle...
What I mean is: you have made great progress in a very short period of time (heck, it takes some people years to get to the point you are at). Your W's problems with intimacy were not created in a day, or three months, and will not be solved in that short time. She is showing a lot of improvement but she needs you to continue to be patient. Do not take it personally, her telling you about her need for space shows that she trusts you not to hurt/reject her. She is scared and skittish... normal reaction. Keep creating an environment of comfort and trust and she will eventually get closer and closer. Push her too hard too soon and she'll bolt and undo some weeks of effort. Not the end of the world, but a step backwards.
So make haste slowly... You are doing great so far.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
You are absolutely right, and of course I know it. THanks for the reality check.
Had a busy weekend, cumulating in an important conversation tonight.
First, with the season change my boys' asthma has kicked in again, so we've been up a lot with them at night and are paying a lot of attention to their care. W and I have both been pretty tired.
We had their birthday party on Saturday - they turn 3 tomorrow. It was a great party. Funny - their big thing right now is trains, and we already had a lot of train toys - after all the train gifts that they were given, it's like FAO Schwartz at Christmas time - everywhere you look there's a train running. I hope this choo-choo phase lasts quite awhile 'cause we've got a big investment in it now.
Okay, so important conversation - and like all important conversations, I can remember about half of it. W said she had a number of light-bulb moments, so I hope this will be progress for her too.
W talked to her father tonight, got into a debate about religion which she was a bit upset about. After she talked to me about her childhood and how the awful things that happened led her to use control as security - she just takes control, and she feels that it includes me and she doesn't know how to stop it. (Some of you may remember some things I said about her tendency to be a little bossy.)
I said that the way I percieve it is her becoming frantic about things, and also distant. I said that she's felt distant for a few weeks now. She agreed that distance is her method of escaping from feeling vunerable.
She said that she knows she loves me but right now she's having trouble feeling it, having that connection, feeling anything that makes her vunerable. She says that she feels asexual. No desire to move into the master bedroom and no desire to have sex. She wants to work on this but is afraid that it's going to take so long that I'm going to get fed up and eventually say, I've had enough, I can't live like this anymore. I assured her I'm committed to her and I don't do that.
She did say that she's not going to leave, she's not going to divorce me, we're past that.
Well, we talked about so much more, and in the end she did say that she felt connected to me. She does for moments - she did on that vacation we took in October - but can't figure out how to have it all the time or at least more often. We talked about the issues we both have with anxiety, vunerablilty, intimacy, etc.
In the end we cuddled in her bed and spent some time being close.
Well, we've made so much progress since July and I am grateful for that. I guess I need to avoid being impatient - can't stop DBing now - but there's still a lot of work to do. W actually said that she's envious of me that I've made so much progress on myself - she said that it seemed that I changed in a moment - while she feels stuck, doesn't see a path to where she wants to go with her growth. SHe's afraid that I'm going to "grow past her" and, again, somehow she'll lose me as a result. Funny how this got turned around. I mentioned at one point that I still get scared and she teared up, saying that she's sorry that she hurt me and that I'd still be scared but that she understood.
How can you be so close to someone, care so much about each other, and still have issues with distance & intimacy? You know, a bit part of the anxiety that comes up for me is sensing that distance when it happens. That's part of what I'm working on with myself, not having that reaction, not having that dependency.
Okay it's late and I need sleep - catch up with y'all soon -
I have a high fever this morning and have to go to work, so bear with me if I do not make much sense.
From the outside looking on, I think your wife is scared. She cares about you but is dealing with some major demons from the past. She fears that you will give up on her and leave her and cannot bear the idea.
So, and I know this does not make sense, but that is how we are wired, she is trying to push you away. It is a control issue: if she pushes you away it is her who is in control, not you. Still she gets the outcome she dreads (you leave/are more distant) but it is more bearable because it does not involve rejection of her: she is in control.
I'd see it as a positive that she actually talks to you so much about her fears... Patience is the key...
And now I got to go... If the fever would be go away...
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
remember bill that communication is half the battle and your lines are WIDE OPEN, be thankful for that!
all you need now and will continue to need is patience, you have shown extreme patience so far - just keep doing what your doing
i am sorta in the same boat "sex" wise as you, altho hubby and i are sleeping in the same bed, he does not want any. i have this thought process i use now in this situation that helps me thru the "lonely" times.
i sit and think would i be here if my hubby COULD NEVER have sex again, for example because of some accident or disease or something, and i answer with a truthful YES - you know you love your mate enough that if something like that would happen you would stand by them no matter what (i think of chris reeves wife, how dedicated she is to her hubby)
with that in mind - just deal with it for now. the one good thing we have on our side is that there ISN'T some debilation and this CAN HEAL - with a little time
Opt - yeah, that's the way I see it too. I know I've got to be patient - I need to focus on her distance affecting me less.
Kitti - yeah, I've very happy about our communication. I asked W last night how she felt about my opening up, and she said it was amazing how much I have... I feel the same with her. We're doing well here.
We will get there. I know we will. We agreed that every day we make the choice to marry ourselves. We're not going to fall apart or give up; we trust one another.
To W's fears about me packing it in, I told her that this is what we do when we get married - we accept the risk of the things that will happen. We make ourselves vunerable to our spouse facing disease, accidents, etc. and this is part of that.
So, my mantra is patience.
W was frantic and edgy again this morning, I just gave her space. I'm learning. She's getting together tonight with the fiancée of one of my good buddies to watch football, so she's getting out of the house and doing social things.
I'd working on twisting the circuits in my head, turning on and off the right switches, applying the mental disipline to keep myself in the right space. I don't want to depend on her feeling good and being constantly close to me so that I'm secure. I want to be a source of light in our marriage and in my life, and I'm working on that.
Hello Bill, I'm almost embarassed at how long I've been away from your thread. Thanks for visiting me. You've been on my mind but work has been busy for me and I haven't had much time to chat.
SO,seems like things are progressing for you. 2 things I thought of while reading your thread. First, would it be possible to hold a family "camp out" in the newly painted LR to get W to cuddle up w/you and try to dismay some of her fears?
Second, is she on any medication that may be hindering her ability/feelings towards s**? Maybe her hormone levels are low and she needs to have them checked. I'm no doctor but I have read that this could be a factor in W's problem.
As for the surgery on your "U", I know someone that had it and it worked - - - for a while.......but then he was back on the couch a few months later coz he started snoring again. Don't know what route he took after that.
Keep up the good work and progress. Slow down a little bit more and continue to validate by letting her know that you will be there for her no matter how long she needs. Tootles...
I do apologize for not being by for awhile BIll...very bad of me I know
I'm not sure of a whole lot else I can add about your sitch right now that hasn't already been said. Your progress seems to be steady...even in your "problem" area your are experiencing small amounts of forward momentum. W is correcting herself and addressing the bdrm as OURS instead of yours or hers, W is trying to spend time in there w/ you, you are both participating in the remodeling of the bdrm etc. Sometimes you gotta take this part of the R a mm at a time
Hugz, Zoo
"If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."
- Mahatma Gandhi
No need to feel bad, I know how it is to get busy and lose track of the BB. THings are mixed - the boys are still sick / asthmatic, so a lot of stress / sleeplessness. The kind of thing that makes W cranky and distant, but we're handling it well together.
On the other hand...
W bought towels and rugs for the master bathroom today! SHe also asked me if she could move all her stuff back because she's already taking all her baths and showers in the master now. This is super-cool.
I've been giving her massages in her bed lately; I suggested today that we start doing in in the master, so we have positive intimate experiences there. SHe agreed that she'd like that (not tonight though - she was basicly sleeping on her feet, so I massaged her in her room).
I'm feeling pretty good about this stuff!
Also, she's planning on sleeping in the master with me while we have company over the holiday. Will see how it goes.
Booked a hotel room in Lake Tahoe for the weekend after Thanksgiving too - MIL will take care of the boys - we're going to get away, go skiing, have some together time.
W said today that she can focus on things a little more after this week - hard week at work, things going on that are really on her mind, and a lot of paperwork she's having to do on her owm time. I think maybe looking at some foward developments soon.
I am willing to be patient. C mentioned that it's time to find other creative outlets to re-energize, focus on myself while this process plays itself out. Zoo - sounds like you're having similar thoughts. Funny, I'd already been thinking about getting back to my guitar, or starting a new story, when C mentioned this. I've always had a really strong drive for that creative side, which hasn't gotten a lot of attention lately, so I think that will be positive.
So Zoo, just to add on what I posted on your thread - I felt really edgy yesterday. Felt like I had a cacophony in my head of negative thoughts, unease, etc. Sometimes I can identify the triggering thought and get out of this pretty easily, sometimes I just have to ride it out, like a headache or something. Today, though, I felt great.
Okay - I have a few minutes before lunch... I like the "postitives" lists that everyone does here, so here goes:
1) W bought towels and rugs for the master bedroom 2) W wants to move her bathroom supplies back into the master 3) W has told me a lot how much she appreciates me, doesn't know what she'd do without me, and "what did I do to deserve you?" 4) Although W has been very stressed out about work lately, full of anxiety and self-doubt, I talked through some of this with her. She said that she depends on me for this - I am key in helping her with her struggles. 5) The massages I give are also very important for her - in her work as a physical therapist, she gets very sore, so this has become an important and regular way for me to be loving. 6) I'm really enjoying work lately 7) I'm getting ideas of what to get people for Christmas presents! 8) Scheduled a vacation for us weekend after Thansgiving
You are doing great so far. 
