WAW and me in 11th hour!!!!

[mza8]

Ken, sending luck and prayers your way. I hope it turns out positive. Even if you're not feeling well, remember to not show it to your W. Be upbeat and happy.

Good luck today and let us know how it turns out.

Oh yeah, Happy Birthday!

[Ken62]

Thanks mza8, I needed that!

[Ken62]

Had a pretty good BD lunch with W yesterday. We were together about 2+ hours and talked about a lot of things. She never did say that OM was in town "visiting" and I'm kind of glad because I don't know what I would have done. I believe that it has turned into a PA but she didn't come right out and say that. Some good interaction between the two of us. She does get sad about her relationship with D20 but she brought it on herself but I didn't say that. I talked about her moving back home and that I know a lot of people need her there and she said that she needs them too. I also mentioned that her kids needed her too and that pushed some buttons so I backed off.

Went out with some of the cast last night after rehearsal and I had more to drink than I normally do but didn't make a fool out of myself. W texted this morning that she hoped I had a good BD and I texted back that I did and that I hoped she has had some good days lately and that I know about OM being in town. Haven't heard anything back since then.

Not sure why I let her know I knew but I just was tired of playing the game and wanted it to be out in the open. She had no trouble telling the kids that he was coming to town and they could probably assume that they were sleeping together but it isn't ok for me to know for some reason. I can't believe the thinking that she must be using that it is ok to have her kids think that and that she wants them to meet him and like him and all of that. Another WAW conundrum I guess!

Time to GO DARK with NC and see what happens next.

[Ken62]

First 24 hours of NC almost done. Got a text from W last night while I was at dress rehearsal.

"I hope you had a good day. I'm in up to my neck with trying to gather costumes. May I stop by the house tomorrow morning to look through my costumes?"

No mention of my message about OM obviously because she wants something. She had asked me this same thing back on Saturday before she knew OM was coming to town. Of course she's running behind, she has spent the last four days doing God knows what with OM and ignoring the rest of her life. It reminds me of us 25 years ago when we first met and it makes me sad and really hurts how she could do this to me and the kids and doesn't seem to care. It's all about her happiness. Again "the play of one"!

I texted back "Yes. Thanks for asking." I wanted to say just make sure you come alone but I'm pretty sure that OM has left by now.

Went out again with the cast after rehearsal but these late nights and late eating are killing me. This GAL stuff is hard! We open tonight and only run for 5 shows this weekend. Not sure if W will come to the show or not. D19 is planning on it and D20 maybe.

One day at a time!

[Glimmerman]

Ken

I am humbled that you would ask for my thoughts. I agree with a lot of what you have been told, and disagree with some of the other advice. When it comes down to it, you must be happy with your choices. I can't imagine what your going through with an open knowledge of OM.

Did I read correctly that this is the OM she was with before she met you?

Here are a few things from my perspective for you to consider.

First, I have seen a few posts from Coach, and it is good stuff in my opinion.

This is based on my belief, but I do not encourage you to date, even casually, while in this process. In my opinion, you do not want to play that game with your wife. You need to be the mature on right now. I would tend to agree with your DB counselor Chuck on that...as well as your faith.

Now I don't know the answer to this, but what message would it send to your wife if she knew that you were NOT seeing someone else? Is it possible that some men in her life have disappointed her? Is this a way you could show strength? I can't answer this, but it could be possible that her summer trip could be a reaction to you seeing other women...again I can't answer that, though.

I remember reading in one of your posts that you have a few sentences of "I told her....". Use the old adage of two ears and one mouth for a reason. You do NOT have to agree with her, but you can affirm that you hear what she is saying. The more you listen, the more she will reveal.

You had mentioned she said that God wants this divorce. Have you asked her non confrontationally why she feels that way?

And, as a final thought, whenever possible, I would encourage you to be cooperative vs confrontational whenever possible. This does not mean that you roll over, but I have seen times where the WAS wants something and it can ultimately lead to a consequence to them for their decision.

[Ken62]

Glimmerman,

Thanks for the quick and thoughtful reply! To answer some of your questions. Yes, this is the same man from 25 years ago. They moved out to Colorado together and they weren't officially dating but living as roommates in a two bedroom apartment. They possibly dated for a little bit and he has always felt that she was the love of his life. She needed to get out of that apartment with him and we needed another roommate at our townhome so she moved in.

I also agree with Coach's posts and I am certainly on the fence about dating. It just doesn't seem right and like I am forcing it out of lonliness and doing it for all the wrong reasons. I know that my W stated several months ago that she wished that I would start dating but I believe that it was because she wanted to feel less guilty about what was going on.

I do know that a lot of men have disappointed her in her life starting with her father and then all the men who abused her and then all the men she dated both back home and out here before she met me. I was the most stable one but I also didn't fill her "emotional tank" and this was the problem with our M. She has a very big heart and needs a lot of love because of her past experience with men and her mother.

You also may be right about her decison to leave this summer. It did come the same week she found out that there might be someone in my life. It may be that this made her feel like she had permission to move on because I was showing signs of moving on. I really don't know what she is thinking though.

As far as the God question, I believe it has to do with her heart and God. She believes that her heart is not protesting her actions and because of this it is also God speaking through her heart. I'm probably not explaining that very well but that is what I perceive to be her explaination.

Not sure how much contact we'll have coming up. I'm Dark and in NC mode right now. She texted me last night to "Break a leg!" on the opening of my show last night but I didn't respond. Maybe I should say "Thanks! It went great!" or maybe I should say nothing. I'm not sure on that one. Thoughts?

Thanks again!

[Glimmerman]

Ken

Your situation has a few things that I have zero experience with in my situation, so I'm not sure I can be much help other than add a comment every now and then.

It is a little bit of a warning sign to me that your wife has seeming felt very comfortable having a male(s) roommates, even though it was 25 years ago, and even though you were one at one point. In my opinion, and please hear me that this is opinion, but I think early on your wife was taught some things about stability and commitment that may still be with her today. Kind of the "well, if this situation doesn't float my boat, I'll just find another situation" sort of deal. I may be way off on that, but it's something you can consider.

I would just encourage you to offer the most stable environment that you can for her. I honestly don't know if you should go NC or not. I think many on this board would say you should, but it's kind of hard when there are kids involved...so I don't know.

As far as the God thing, I do understand where you say she is probably coming from. It's sort of the "if it were the wrong thing to do, then it wouldn't feel so right". I have learned (and am still learning) in my sitch that it's hard to fight feelings.

The biggest piece of wisdom that I think I can offer you is when you make decisions or consider your options, I'd ask myself this question..."does this decision show stability and commitment to my wife?". If you continually answer that question, I think you've done your best.

[Ken62]

Well it was quite the weekend. I was pretty down for a lot of it having realized that when you go NC and stop all the initiating that you stop hearing from your WAW because YOU were the only one initiating contact. Was very busy with shows Friday night (didn't go out afterwards), two shows on Saturday (went out between shows and after night show) and final show on Sunday afternoon followed by a cast party Sunday night. Trying to get out and GAL with the cast who have been VERY supportive.

D19 was always planning on coming to Sunday show but W also came. I talked to her a little after the show. Thanked her for coming asked her about a certain number in the show and she gave me a very odd answer. She knew several people in the show and talked to them for a little bit as well. The consensus from some of them was that W did not seem to be "put together" like she usually is. Very little makeup if any and very distracted and timid.

I really wasn't sure if W was coming to see the show and take it as a positive that she did. I'm sure it was hard for her to come to the show. Others think that she was trying to make her self look good by supporting me and they could be right but I'll keep the positive feelings I have that she came at all.

After cast party talked to an old high school friend about my sitch and caught her up to speed. We ended up talking for three hours and that was helpful. Detaching from W and giving space to both me and her seems to be the best thing all around right now.

Trying to plan some things with some cast members going forward so that I don't go crazy with all my new found free time. S24 is coming to town on Thursday for a week. He mentioned that he had a 2.5 hour phone call with W last week and 2 hours were good and last .5 was bad because it dealt with OM. He had to be very careful with what he said and how he said it to W because she can go off on the kids just as easily as she does with me if they say the wrong thing. (Play of one!)

I really do think that NC is the right way to go. I still have to finalize the taxes so I may need to send an e-mail update about that to her and I'm not sure how much I'll see her while S24 is in town. Not sure if he'll spend any nights over at W apartment or not but he certainly can do anything he wants while he is home.

That's it for now.

[Ken62]

Sent W an e-mail regarding the taxes last night and she called pretty quickly to discuss them with me. We ended up talking on the phone for 4 hours!

The first part was about taxes but then we moved into S24 visit later this week and visit by OM last week and her relationship with all the kids. I tried to validate as much as I could and overall it was a good talk.

She told me about another melt down she had last Friday about her relationship with all of her kids. She did make a few phone calls to try and find someone to talk to. She ended up calling her friend who is a crisis counselor.

She really wants to share her happiness about her and OM with the kids and for them to accept him and be happy for her and she has gotten a lot of push back from the kids. I said that I know she wants their approval but it is just too soon for them. S24 has only been dealing with the reality of our split/divorce for 5 months and she wants him to accept that she is already sleeping with someone else! Oh the lack of logic!

Again, it's the play of one. Everything has to be on W schedule. I tried to remind her of what my C talked about. That we all do things in our own time and if you force it it is like helping a butterfly out of its cocoon before it is ready. It will die. She wants me to be farther along in this process and the kids farther along in accepting her and OM.

Asked her if she was interested in seeing my C for IC and she said that she just doesn't know if she could trust C again since last time she "threw her under the bus". This was back on Jan. 2 when W said that "she had no choice" and D "had to be done" and the C said that she was "speaking like a victim" and that W did have a choice. W hated that and still feels that it wasn't a choice/decision. She feels that C then treated her poorly and W "punishment" for her decision was to have to move out of her house and into the apartment.

I stated W position that to W it is like having your hand over a flame and you have to pull it away and that is why it isn't a choice/decision to W, it is more of a reflex or self preservation. But to me and C it is that W choices are to stay in a M that she feels is "killing" her or getting out and she chose to get out. Tried to explain that W is not being "punished" because of her decision but that she doesn't want to be in the M so she doesn't get to stay in the house.

W is still very hung up on the house and the furniture and all that she did there for the last 18 years and I can see that. I was able to tell her that her saying that knowing that someone might be sleeping in her bed some day bothered her was not the nicest thing to hear. It was as if that was worse than hearing that someone was sleeping with her husband/ex-husband. The whole material thing really baffles me.

One of the better things she said was that we should be as positive as possible around the kids so that they think everything is okay and then they wont feel sorry for me and be mad at her for what she is doing with OM. She even talked about trying to have a family therapy session while S24 was home but I don't see how that would happen.

She mentioned that she is scared to death to move back to her home town for at least the summer but knows that she has to do it. I told her that I know she does and wish her the best of luck.

She talked about meeting one of my fellow cast members after the show who I introduced to her. She said that she noticed how the woman squeezed my shoulder as she left and wondered if there was something going on there. I told her that I wasn't aware of what she was referring to. Boy do women pick up on things or what?

She said watching the show was difficult at times and that some of the time she hated me for being in the show because it was another "punishment" for her that I could be in it and she couldn't. She said that she was tempted to leave at intermission because D19 was being cold and other people were not treating her well but she stayed.

She talked again about the lack of "spark" between us and that at the concert on her BD she felt like "friends". I brought up the fact that her being with OM and the hurt and anger she feels for me could possibly be a "spark inhibitor". I talked about the fact that we were never able to work on the M or R after the bomb was dropped was difficult for me.

Near the end of the conversation I talked about the fact that I have been spending these last 5 months trying to give her space and I have finally realized that I need my space from her and that her moving back home will be good for me. She seemed to get kind of quiet during that but I could be wrong.

She reiterated that we may or may not do things together as a "family" this weekend while S24 is in town. We were all planning on going to an indoor skydiving place because I have a free one coming from a silent auction. I told her that I wasn't sure if I wanted her there and I really wasn't sure if the kids wanted her there so I said that I would check with them and let them decide. Not sure how that would affect her if she didn't get to go or wasn't "wanted" there. Any thoughts on which one would be better?

Sorry for the long update but it was a long phone call!

[robx]

OK I'm confused and I'm sure you are too.
Way too many mixed signals.

Why do you talk about the OM with your wife?
That's a boundary violation.

If she is with the OM, why do you spend time with her?
Do you expect that being friends with your wife will cause her to leave the OM? That won't work, you are helping her emotional healing during this process by being the "good friend/nice guy", you're so sticky sweet sounding.

Couple clues for you to look at,
she mentioned noticing that woman touching your shoulder,
this is typical with WAW's in affairs. It's ok for them to have affairs and be physically intimate with new partners but they tend to have a possessive nature when it comes to their LBH's (YOU). Spending 4 hours talking to you on the phone is another clue, you are the cushion, you are making her transition with the OM easy.

Maybe this is a personal choice but I couldn't be friends with my wife is she was actively involved in an affair with another man. No apologies offered either, I could be civil because you're still a co-parent to children you will always share but no friendship, none of my friends treat me that poorly, I have high standards when it comes to my friends, they're the best and they treat me awesome and vice versa - I don't see your wife doing that for you.

Telling her you needed space was a good move, when will she be moving out? You guys aren't still sleeping in the same bed are you? Especially with her being involved with the OM, that would be really weird. Based on your last post I'll assume you guys haven't been physically intimate in a long time.

It is time for you to get out there again.
It displays confidence and strength, holding on to her and talking to her and being supportive the way you are still shows your attachment to her. Let her go.

Time for you to date other women and enjoy it.
No one says you have to find the next relationship in your life but get out there, get used to meeting women, get signed up with an online dating site and start meeting new women, it will do wonders for your confidence and get you back into "MAN" mode.

Your constant interaction with your wife can't be helping you, if anything I bet you still want her back now more than ever. Observe that dynamic, she's with someone else but you still want her back - I'll say that you still want her back because you're still posting on this forum with the details of your life and what she's still doing, you're still invested in this, you still want to crack this nut and win this game. Well, do the opposite of what you're doing, your clue was that she noticed when that women touched your shoulder a specific way, your wife was watching, she spent enough time observing that action for her curiousity to be affected in such a way that she's asking questions.

In the end, she knows that if she wanted you back, she could snap her fingers and you would come running. Moving on, telling her you need space, escalating the time schedule for when she moves out, dating other women, etc. This is going to make reality set in, currently she's in a fantasy, everyone except for some of your family is treating her excellent even though she wants to divorce you and even though she's with another man. Alter her fantasy by you starting to see & date another woman (or two or three), watch what happens. "I thought you loved me and would wait for me? Are you seeing someone? You're dating?! Who?! Why?! Is this why you wanted me to move out faster?"

She has 2 men, the OM who she wants and continues to pursue and her husband that is pursuing her (indirectly but still pursuing her by being her emotional healing cushion and person to talk to because no one else understands her like you do). Stop pursuing, move in the opposite direction, stop being available for these chats with your wife, start making plans and being unavailable to her, start dating and don't hide it (but don't flaunt it like a jerk prick either) and start enjoying your single life.

Either that or continue being there for her and hoping that one day she'll wake up from her "fog" and want her husband back.