Definitely not going to be with open arms... and let's not forget he's still ready to "walk" - although IF she is really out of the picture, I don't know what form that "walking" will take. We sleep in the same bed, watch t.v. at night and laugh together, etc.
I'm a painter (hobbyist) and have been thinking of painting a phoenix to hang in our bedroom. With the hopes that it will be our marriage in the ashes and the new one rising. I'm ready to discard the old, painful way of doing things and start over... but first I have to get him to even CONSIDER that there could EVER be a chance of happiness again.
One thing that really, really bugs him is that he did this twice. I know, I shouldn't feel sympathy for a man who cheats twice... but I do. Not for the cheating, but the loss of self he has undergone. He truly, truly believes that "if my heart was so full of you, another woman should never have been able to get in." - and I don't know what or how to help him with this one... maybe this is one of those areas I should just agree with him. "You're right, DH, it wasn't full of me and I own up to the part that I played in that."
MOst infidelity experts maintain that infidelity happens in the healthiest of marriages too.
His claim is more or less an ignorant dismissal of the facts - good strong marriages still experience infidelity - he's deluded if he thinks "If i loved you then I would never have cheated" - its classic infidelity script to justify his affair.
If the affair IS endING... he needs to go through several weeks of withdrawal before he's in any way prepared to receive anything constructive.
He was ready to walk because he had an escape... I strongly suspect that his readiness to walk is paraellel with the level of commitment OW was offering him. The more she promised to leave her H, the more committed he was to leaving.
If she tells him to "hit the road" I suspect that his readiness to walk will hit the floor pretty quickly.. but he would never admit that.. he is deluded and has to save face. He needs to learn some humility in order for him to have a healthy relationship.
That text may just have been a response to your phone call the day before. I suspect you phoning H is causing a LOT of stress over there.
That's why I encoruage exposure so heavily on the OWH end.. it takes the fight to OW's doorstep and they usually don't like counter attack.
OP like to attack hosueholds in the dark, in secret... they are cowardly. Once you expose it and start fighting back and attack THEIR home suddenly they fall apart and don't like it when THEIR home is being poked at... they are just getting a MILD taste of their own damage.... at least YOU had the class to attack her home and expose this mess in public. SHE was attacking YOURS in SECRET.
At least you have the guts to show your choices in the open and own them.
That text may just have been a response to your phone call the day before. I suspect you phoning H is causing a LOT of stress over there.
That's why I encoruage exposure so heavily on the OWH end.. it takes the fight to OW's doorstep and they usually don't like counter attack.
OP like to attack hosueholds in the dark, in secret... they are cowardly. Once you expose it and start fighting back and attack THEIR home suddenly they fall apart and don't like it when THEIR home is being poked at... they are just getting a MILD taste of their own damage.... at least YOU had the class to attack her home and expose this mess in public. SHE was attacking YOURS in SECRET.
At least you have the guts to show your choices in the open and own them.
"if my heart was so full of you, another woman should never have been able to get in." - and I don't know what or how to help him with this one... maybe this is one of those areas I should just agree with him. "You're right, DH, it wasn't full of me and I own up to the part that I played in that."
That was my H all over too.
Quote:
If the affair IS endING... he needs to go through several weeks of withdrawal before he's in any way prepared to receive anything constructive
This isn't always the case Allen. You state it as though it is fact but it is your opinion, and it is not correct always.
And usually an OW is a sympton........whatever Puppy states. A symptom you want rid of, but all the same a symptom.
Re what Allen said about welcoming home with open arms....I in no way meant without trying to sort out the underlying problems that caused your H to feel that he needed to go outside the M for validation, (twice). But that can all be done in time.
The important thing is to talk and decde what you both want in life now.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
This isn't always the case Allen. You state it as though it is fact but it is your opinion, and it is not correct always.
The important thing is to talk and decde what you both want in life now.
First off, I never said it was always the case, it is usually the case according to experts. And secondly it is NOT MY opinion. It is the SHARED EXPERIENCe of infidelity EXPERTS... do not dismiss the experience of experts who deal with hundreds of cases and pass it off as me only peddling my one sample case in my own life. It's not my opinion I am offering, its a conclusion of many experts based on hundreds of case studies.
As long as he's high on his affair and his brain is in a fog talkign and deciding isn't giong to be fruitful much at all.
It's been TWO days since exposure.. And he's been dismissive and avoidant, not remoseful and cooperative. I hardly think this man is emotionally prepared or intellectualy prepared to make intelligent decisions about his marriage with a spouse he's been lying to for weeks wtihout even owning up to it yet.
This isn't always the case Allen. You state it as though it is fact but it is your opinion, and it is not correct always.
And usually an OW is a sympton........whatever Puppy states. A symptom you want rid of, but all the same a symptom.
Saffie,
You mean, sorta like you just did right there?
The presence of another person in a marriage via an affair isn't just a "symptom," unless you want to say that gasoline is a "symptom" of a conflagration. It is an obstacle and an IMMEDIATE THREAT to the family and to the very marriage itself.
"Nagging" is a marital "symptom." One spouse not doing their fair share of the housework, leading to resentment -- that's a "symptom." Communications issues -- symptom.
An OM/OW who is preying on your marriage is . . . well, they are a PREDATOR, and should be dealt with as such.
Facebook messages between them that they copied me on.
Hi H, Pass contacted us tonight by phone and requested that you and I no longer have contact, and both OWH and OW agree with her. I did tell her that as long as you initiate emails to me, I will reply. I told her to tell you to stop emailing me. So let's both decide right now not to email one another anymore. She recommended a book called Not Just Friends so maybe it'll be a good read for OWH & me, as well as the Divorce Remedy book she gave us (thanks Pass). It actually isn't fair at all to Pass nor OWH for us to be in contact, how does the distraction help the marriages we're already in, and it wouldn't make sense while we are trying to sort out our marriage. This message isn't for "show" for Pass's sake, this is for real. Pass, I didn't mean to bait you on the phone, that wasn't my intention; I just didn't know if your call was just to harrass us, feed my husband with negativity, but I realize that isn't your goal so I apologize for that. We googled PEA, "brain chemicals" "affairs" as you suggested and came up with a few websites to read. It'll help us with OUR own marriage; figuring out how our love evolved & changed since we were first married. We hope you two are able to sort out your feelings as well.
Husband April 8 at 8:13am Reply Hi OW,
This morning Pass told me she called OWH last night to give him the title of a book and you picked up the phone and started a fight with her. She said she hung up and finished what she had to say in a text. She said nothing to me about ceasing contact or any other content of your conversation. She also said she only told me about it because she figured I would hear about it today. Looks like I did.
I will keep this message brief and just say I will not initiate any emails to you and I hope you and OWH can work out your issues.
Good luck and take care,
I'm sorry she felt that way but she is incorrect. She is initiating phone calls & refusing to identify herself when I answer. She was then placed on speakerphone which gives her full opportunity to OPENLY discuss whatever it is she's calling about. We appreciate her help but ultimately we'd rather go to a professional, and we aren't convinced she can "help us" anyway. We will look up the book she suggested.
If she called to ask me (and you) to cease contact, which is a REASONABLE request, wouldn't she WANT to talk to ME (and especially YOU) to request that? I told her to TELL YOU to stop emailing me, so I don't know why she herself hasn't told you to stop, and if she's apparently not discussing hardly anything with you, her own husband, but is contacting US instead, she's obviously working on OUR marriage moreso than YOURS!
As far as her marital issues she needs to talk to YOU, not to OWH or me about them. Calling us & telling us your "addiction to extramarital affairs" & emotional "pattern" when having your "love affairs" is making her/your marital problems OUR business. So when asked about being married to a "serial cheater" coupled with "self respect/sense of self worth," as my response to her, she hung up on me. Oh well. You are the person she SHOULD be communicating with about all this stuff and she is instead calling US, and therefore we suspect she may be doing so NOT with open, honest, forthright intentions. She is welcome to call us anytime she wants if she genuinely wants to help us, we appreciate her suggestions, but wouldn't it be more constructive to have open discussions with YOU instead, her own husband, and you both work out your OWN issues among YOURSELVES, and if she has a problem with anything YOU are doing/not doing, shouldn't she take it up with YOU, instead of US? That would be OUR request.
I still don't know if I believe her... She's making an awfullly brave show of things, but she's also slipping in a lot of shots that arne't convicning me she's grown up at all.
If she has'nt grown up, she likely isn't on the up and up either...
Your husband at this point is likely doing most of hte pursuing on the affair end.
The GOOD thing is your exposure into her marriage and to OWH has done a LOT of damage to the affair to break it up.
Facebook is so silly sometimes.. i don't even use it at all
H and I had the talk at lunch. First we spoke about finances, it went well. Then I spoke to him about my feelings, my remorse, essentially what I posted earlier. I cried, he sighed very heavily frequently. Then sat there a while and he said "I'm not just staring at the trees, I'm processing what you said and feeling the emotions." He told me they have decided no contact. I asked if he would tell me if there was more and he said yes. (I know, guys, I know, I won't trust but I had to ask to make sure he knew where I stood)
I told him that when he first told me that he was ready to end the M, I had thought to ask him if he wanted to scrap the M and start over, start being friends and dating. I said I had been too afraid to ask. He said back then he was in appeasement mode and would have said maybe or no, are you crazy. Now he's in a different place and his answer would be very different. I was confused by that - did he mean he'd date me or not? I just don't know... so I asked again and he gave the same exact answer. Still no clearer. I'm making assumptions that his answer would be a definitive no to it, but I just didn't "get" what he was saying... It was 15 minutes past our lunch hour - he kept looking at his watch and saying it was time to go but not getting up and leaving, but finally we did leave and went back to work. I would like to think some of this helped on some level, but I'm not sure. It will be some time before I know for sure.
