I am surprised that you paid the entire Retro fee upfront. My experience is that they only take a deposit up front and ask for the remainder at the end of the program. I feel certain that they would refund most if not all of the fee at this point. You are not the first couple to cancel, and there are always last minute people who want the place you are giving up.
But.....you and your husband have severe communication problems. And Retrouvaille is ALL about communication. There is no reason that you have to go with a mind to reconcile. If you can go and learn the communication skills, you will get more than your money's worth from the weekend. Communication is essential whether you continue together or separate. What the two of you are doing now is not working. The weekend would help you. Just take the focus off reconciliation.
Maybe it's not clear from my posts, but he's ready to walk. He's in a deep emotional and physical affair right now and is not in any way, shape or form sorry for it. He feels like he's entitled to it.
I don't see how sharing my inner feelings with him to show him I'm vulnerable will help.
Where's he going to walk to right now? I thought money was a worry and it didn't sound like OW was in a position to finance a love nest.
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If he is willing to show you enough respect to negotiate a time to talk then I say give him all the ears he wants, but the way he handled it was why I reccomend you refuse him. Refurse and set an example of how to negotiate a civilized talk. Removing the fuse from your car to force a one-sided spew of lies is not it.
I fully agree that the way passenger's H went about talking to her was wrong, but c'mon - she wasn't giving him a time and place at that point to talk - she had avoided him at lunchtime etc. My gut tells me there is so much more to this- with passenger as well as her H.
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As long as he respects you and negotiates then give him an ear. If he starts lying or yelling, then you END it.
Again, I agree. But at the same time passenger, remember what you have said about you yelling at him in the past. It might be good for him to know you regret it.
Your list of reasons was completely WHY I think you need to talk and show him them. You are culpable for some of the damage in this M too. Maybe if you admitted that to him it might just take the wind out of his sails - did with my H.
You need a healthy way to learn to communicate, and in your current position, both time wise and financially, I would have thought trying to put a front on to get him to Retro would be sensible. C'mon - can you afford a family therapist? Stop beating each other up with the Retro thing and agree to go so that you can learn to disagree in a civil manner, (at worst).
Tomorrow is another day and you may both wake up feeling slightly more ameanable. This is bound to be a rollercoaster.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I fully agree that the way passenger's H went about talking to her was wrong, but c'mon - she wasn't giving him a time and place at that point to talk - she had avoided him at lunchtime etc. My gut tells me there is so much more to this- with passenger as well as her H.
And I think NOT catering to his demands is an important step in taking BACK the DIGNITY he TOOK from her when he started cheating. Pass needs to TEACH him how she wants to be treated. Right now he's just doing what he pleases to Pass' detriment.
There is more to it, but until he ASKS for a time from her and shows her respect then forget it. He wasn't even apologizing for cheating when he was offering to talk. Not owning ANYTHING. And he COULD have written what he wanted to say in email... its not like Pass was refusing to read a letter. She just wasn't willing to be cornered in a room with him... its disrespectful to have to do that while your spouse is cheating. I don't see any reason why it is in any way unreasonable to refuse to face to face talk while ownership of an affair and a simple apology has yet to be offered.
"I want to talk" reply = no
"I'm sorry, I made a big mistake here" reply = ok, here's a time I have free.
Originally Posted By: saffie
Again, I agree. But at the same time passenger, remember what you have said about you yelling at him in the past. It might be good for him to know you regret it...Maybe if you admitted that to him it might just take the wind out of his sails - did with my H.
Yes, this opened a window with my wife as well. But right now during the first few days of exposure he's in shock and what he ended up saying and doing wasn't at all surprising.
The problem is while a spouse is CHEATING and living in the same home and pushing for "talks" just to vent its hugely disrespectful and borderline abusive.
A healthy conversation has to start with equality. And with ONE spouse cheating and essentially HOLDING a GUN to their spouses head AND demanding to TALK at the same time, its a no brainer that the dynamics need to change. Its just an invitation to a lot of stress and hurt.
Talking means you put AWAY the knives first... he isn't putting away ANYTHING. He wants to keep the passive aggressive affair going and hurt his spouse AND get to VENT TOO... THAT is NOT something I would support as a basis for a conversation.
Next time you want to talk with someone put a gun at their head first and then see how productive the conversation is... and during an affair this is a very similar dynamic. Its not an equal conversation by any stretch.
If you want to say something Pass, my advice is to write it in an email where you have comfort, time, and minimal stress and can say and do what you are comfortable doing. AND have time to think carefully about what you're going to say.
And be sure to reinforce your position on the infidelity.
Good conversation needs skills, and cheating while you are "talking" doesnt' demonstrate a great deal of conversational talent to me. No, you aren't having sex while you are talking, but it shows that the foundation for conversation isnt' respected.
That is the first step to a productive talk is a safe foundation.
If you want to say something Pass, my advice is to write it in an email where you have comfort, time, and minimal stress and can say and do what you are comfortable doing. AND have time to think carefully about what you're going to say.
Very good point. I would also suggest that after you have written what you are going to write, you go away for half an hour and then come back and read it again. Try and think how you would feel to be on the receiving end of it as well, think of any way your words could be misinterpreted or used against you. Remember, your H won't be able to see your facial expression or body language.....and also remember that things that are written can come back and bite you as they can be kept as proof.
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And be sure to reinforce your position on the infidelity.
.....and that goes without saying!!!!!!!! I am sure he has the message by now - but no harm in repeating it!!!!!
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I may be in the minority, but I would kick him out. The way I see it, he wanted to be heard and you heard him. He refused to admit to the A, blaming it all on you. Well since you talked to the OW, she's going to keep up appearances to "work on" her M. So right now your H basically has no one. He still holds you at night (more like a teddy bear) as security. He's going to continue to do that until he finds someone else.
It's his pattern. You've detailed it very well here. And the fact that he is always wanting to be in control.
I think the faster you push him to hit rock bottom, it might shake him up enough to see that what he has is better than what he "might" have.
Just my 2 cents.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I don't reccomend much email, but its better than letting him corner you into a conversation. You both dont have the skills or the temperment to handle a real-time exchange... email is a lot safer. You both will have time to think and reflect, and yes holding off the SEND until you go away for a half our or so and come back to re-read can work wonders.
This is a delicate time right now... and the next few days is your chance to show him consequences for CONTINUED cheating and disrespect OR, to teach him you support his affair and that you want an open marriage or divorce... you set that pace as much as he does and all your choices send a message in one direction or another (or both, mixed messages are the most important thing to avoid).
The feeling I am getting from his behaviour and words so far is he's going to try to take the same route my wife did :
1. It's all hopeless 2. I am willing to hear what you or a therapist has to say 3. I am going to continue my infidelity and continue hurting you and disrespecting you
My usual reccomendation is that if he holds onto 3 that you keep upping the pressure on him to end it while working on yourself and with a Family Therapist alone.
(And yes 1 and 2 contradict each other, but cheaters aren't known for their ability to reason carefully now are they...)
Or show the email to the OW. I can see them laughing at me now.
I used to write long, flowery love letters to H at the beginning of our R. He finally told me that words mean nothing to him, I can write well and he didn't internalize what they said to him. It hurt, took away one of the ways I communicated my love to him.
