Midlife Crisis? Affair? Dunno...

[sandycay]

Hi Grasshopper,

Everyone has a lot of crap in their lives. That said, My STBXH's brother abandoned his wife two years before STBXH did us. He talked horribly about him and would say "even if he abandoned SIL he shouldn't abandon children." Well, guess what mine did exactly the same thing he detested for so long. You will notice we recondiled for 18 months... we never fought or anything during this time but after about 6 months... somethig was off ... Of course, he denied and denied and did wonderful things (actions) to show me he loved me and all the while was lying. Now, my STBSH has no history of lying at all... this was the start so take it for what it's worth...l but your wifes insistence about going out that much and being married is wrong. Single people don't go out that much at our age. There are red flags all around this situation. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's a duck!

you say yourself that she acts differently when drinking and she's drinking with the OM and being in a car alone with him? Why don't you go with them? I would certainly be doing some investigating on what's going on. Why wouldn't a woman come pick her up?

Do you really think that if she had anything going on with this fellow she would admit it at this point? Come On! You know you can't believe people in the throws of an EA or PA.

Your wife went out on Easter and went out last night and probably going out this weekend. That's crazy! That's not just needing some time with friends.... doesn't she have all day to lunch with her friends or grab coffee... that's what happy married people do. They don't make their spouse uncomfortable with their social lives.

[grasshopper]

Thanks Sandy.

She didn't go out last night but that's not really the issue...

Welp, there is that little devil sitting on my other shoulder. Everything you said makes sense. At the end of the day, and this is something I learned over a long time here, I can't really control what she does. I am NOT going to snoop, nor am I going to become obsessed with this. I have already started doing both of the above and for me personally, from a great deal of experience both in my own sitch and watching others here deal with their sitches, it will NOT help. As I said during my W's previous affair. If I wanted to leave, I can just do it, I don't need any more reasons.

Then again, I am not entirely sure I am in the same place, or have the same desire to stick things out this time that I did last time. So I suppose it matters to me exactly what's going on but in the end, I am 100% sure that I can't force an end to it if there is something nefarious afoot. I can only do the DB thing, work on me and see what happens.

I learned long ago that there is a wide gulf on these boards between people who are supportive of people living in R's with WAS or dealing with an ongoing EA/PA, and people who say "f--k that, if they do xxxx, then you should just walk away" I am here to say, I am not at all interested in being a doormat, and was rarely ever accused of being one before here, but I will not simply walk away unless I am sure my marriage cannot be saved.

While I agree, as I said, that your reasoning makes sense, so does Lodo's, who suggests the opposite. Consider me somehow still an optimist I guess and for now, I am trying really hard to see things for the 1/2 full they may be than the slowly draining from 1/2 empty they could be.

The one thing I most strongly agree with, and this feeling threatens to derail any attempt I may make at DBing, etc, is that no matter what, a caring, loving spouse would not do things intentionally causing discomfort in the marriage. This is the constant refrain I hear in my head. It's the one red flag I cannot seem to ignore. It's the one thing I truly can't understand assuming the worst isn't true. Even if there is no affair, then why allow all this tension to build?

If anything is going to bring this to a boiling point in me, it's this issue. I have brought it up with W several times and she always comes back with "you're making a huge deal out of nothing" and when I talk of her behavior threatening or damaging our marriage, the same thing "I am going out with friends for the first time in several years, something I have not done in so long purely out of fear over how you would react... and I was right. You are over reacting just as you always have and making an issue out of my simply wanting to have adult friends to talk to and go out with." Again, for the 100th time, I totally agree with most of that indictment of my reaction except for that little issue of the alleged OM. I have told her that over and over "Get rid of the guy and our issues are gone. HE is the only problem I have, not your other friends." She just usually listens to that and then either says nothing or reiterates how silly it all is since he's just a part of a group. Wow, I'm tired all of a sudden. I REALLY need to work on short posts.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I learned long ago that there is a wide gulf on these boards between people who are supportive of people living in R's with WAS or dealing with an ongoing EA/PA, and people who say "f--k that, if they do xxxx, then you should just walk away"

I agree, here in MLC as of lately it has been supportive of the LBS living in R's with a MLC WAS...even of ignoring the affairs...not to say to be a doormat or bury your head in the sand. But that nothing the LBS is going to do is going to end the affair if their spouse is in MLC...more than likely push them together AND if you go that route you might as well book them the hotel room AND undress them. : )

I have told her that over and over "Get rid of the guy and our issues are gone.

Cough! Cou...bullshit...gh! Cough!

You believe that?

Your (collective) issues are gone?

That is far from the truth based upon what you ahve written up until now. Do not lie to yourself...or to her.

Grasshoppa,

You're an example I do not want to follow, we both started posting here about the same time, but you fell back into old ways, and that scares me, it scares me in myself, and I strive not to forget the lessons I learned here.

What are you doing right now to improve yourself, AND what are you putting in place to prevent your from sliding backwards?

Then again, I am not entirely sure I am in the same place, or have the same desire to stick things out this time that I did last time.

I TOTALLY understand that line of thinking.

[grasshopper]

Thanks Jack,

"I have told her that over and over "Get rid of the guy and our issues are gone."

I have to clarify. I did NOT mean to in any way insinuate that our collective issues were gone if OM was. What I meant was that on this one issue, her going out with friends, it's the OM that is the problem. I don't want to be that guy who forbids his wife from going out so long as everything is above board. So if she does indeed just want to build a circle of friends, the issue with THAT is the OM. Of course we have tons of other issues that we can only begin to work on that have nothing to do with OM or that sitch.

Our marriage problems are many and in some cases fairly deep. Some of them are my issues, some are hers. Even after the A, and especially during it, all the conscious work was done by me to change. Of course she changed too by virtue of going through things but I made a choice, one I thought I never stopped making.

So I would say that I have not totally fallen from the DB tree. Far from it. I think if I am honest and stop beating myself up, I have changed, and stayed changed in many ways. I am still very much more self-reflective. I have maintained my validation of my W in many cases. I have much more self control (or did over the past few years) when it comes to the most damaging of things I used to do in our M. It's really just that I have allowed my stress to build up and manifest itself in anger, especially towards the kids (yelling a lot).

I hate to think I've become a BAD example when I spent so much time being a good one here. It looks like you've stayed here over the years and I left. Maybe that was a bad move because I can see now that I have not been doing the real work I've needed to be doing over the past few years. I have slipped but not fallen.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

GH,

Didn't mean to come across as overly harsh.

Let me explain, as a LBS who's MLC wife came back, I have alot in common with you. I do not want to make the mistake of falling back into old habits.

The quote below is only so you see where I drew my conclusion from.

I am struggling with how to behave. I have turned back into the ass that was partly responsible for pushing her away long ago and I hate it. I am constantly questioning her about where she's been, going and who she's with (she says I text and call her constantly...which I suppose is true). In response, she says she feels like she's married to her dad and intentionally stops answering her phone sometimes. I have started getting very emotional, angry, paranoid and all the things I fought SO hard to stop being during the affair

I do not want to fall back into that old version of me either.

It is not that you weren't or aren't a good example, just allowing yourself to slip back into old habits...to be complacent again, perhaps? Is not a good example, but still one that can be valuable to others.

Again did not mean to come across as...a dick.

[grasshopper]

Not a dick. Direct, yes, but not that. I do see your point based on that quote and I have to own that because it's all pretty much true. Maybe my spin would be a bit different than yours but you're right about those particular big reversals in my behavior, and probably it's correct to assume that they may be playing a part in our issues of late.

I just have some decisions to make about what I want to do about our M. Suffice it to say W is lying about at least some things and I assume others. The overall motivation may be more pure than having an A but at the end of the day, if our marriage is damaged or broken, then maybe it doesn't matter.

Damn this sucks to have to revisit this again. Maybe you're right in that I should have never stopped visiting in the first place. Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

[grasshopper]

I remember this roller coaster... and I never wanted to ride it again. I am feeling like I just need to get to the bottom of OM now. I don't know that I want to pretend nothing is going on when it very well may be. I want to confront her, demand to see her texts to him (which should be no problem if they're innocent), demand to meet him if he's such a great guy, etc. Maybe those are all the wrong things to do but maybe I just don't care all that much anymore. The 2nd time around seems like somehow it should be easier but damnit if it's 100 times harder. Knowing what's coming is worse that not.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

GH,

I think you need to figure out if you care before you make choices that rob your of your options.

The roller coaster exists, because of expectations. Expectations of being hurt, expectations of hope, expectations of any number of things. You lose those expectaions of her, and focus on yourself and suddenly the roller coaster isn't so bad.

IF she is in MLC, I will say that the number of MLCers who have an affair is very high. I did not say 100% though. But If nothing IS going on...then are you pretending that nothing is going on?

Figure out if you care first though. Go from there.

[grasshopper]

See Jack, I knew you were far from a "richard" Ah, expectations. I think if I am going to stop spinning and get real here, that is the number one slip I have had. I allowed myself to start living in a world where expectations where not only reasonable but dominated my thinking. It was my purest poison before and until now I somehow didn't realize that it was back so much. I have built up expectations around everything in our life. My wife, myself, kids, work, clients, etc. Of course almost never do my expectations come true and as it always used to, that causes me stress. I told my IC about this habit I had of going into just about any situation with an expectation of how it would go, and when it didn't, getting upset about that. She thought that was a HUGE issue I need to deal with, and we did.

You're right. EVERYTHING I am feeling, thinking, doing is centered around what might happen, what the future may hold, what she may do, what he may do, how I may feel, what I would do, what might happen if I do, etc, etc, etc.

In other words, I have stopped living in the real world and took the express train back to the world of expectations. Thank you so much for pointing that out. It should have been obvious, and I suppose it was. That's what I missed about being here; the good ones really have a way of seeing through the BS and kindly but firmly telling it like it is.

So to answer your question; I do care. Of course I do. I would not be here if I didn't. I guess what I was lashing out in that last post about was the fact that based on my current expectations/feelings/thoughts that the OM is at least an EA and maybe a PA, I don't care. Once I remove all pretense and expectation, I know I care. It's so hard to lear... or should I say, RE-learn how to detach and live MY life without trying to manage hers so that OUR life can be better. I just WANT it to be better so badly, I want to "fix" it that I am in denial about what I need to do for myself. I've been thinking if I just manage my expectations it will all get better. It won't until I purge those expectations I suppose.

Thanks again.

[grasshopper]

Two choices:

Choice #1

1) Snoop (more) and see if I can find evidence of affair.
2) Confront W with said evidence.
3) Demand she stop seeing him "or else"
4) Follow through on the "or else" if she refuses.

or if there is no evidence...

Demand she stop seeing him on principal that it's just not right for a married woman to be hanging with another man.

Choice #2

1) Get back to DB HARD.
2) Focus on myself.
3) Drop expectations.
4) BE who I want to be in our M no matter who she is.
5) Focus more on our boys.
6) GAL.

Yes, I did say a few posts ago that Choice #1 was not for me but it sure would FEEL good to do that, at least in the short term. Then again, as Jack said, once I go there, there's no turning back, whether there is an A or not so much.

Of course on this board, I would hope #2 is the one that would get the votes but damnit #1 seems like what I should do. I suppose that's just being in denial again. I suppose Jack was right when he called me out about OM being THE issue. Choice #1 is all about ridding a symptom and #2 is all about curing a disease. But that symptom, that's the one I can't stand.