I'm not one of your people, but you posted to me a couple years ago. I went back and read just about every one of your posts after that - no small task.
I'm sorry you feel the need to post again.
My XW had an affair, we got back together, and things were great for 8 years. Then she did it again. But this time she knew what drew her back to me the last time, and she avoided those situations at all costs. Why am I telling you this? Because ultimately, that's the danger. You have every right to be paranoid.
But it seems to me your W isn't there, nor would I say she's having a MLC (why does everyone around here jump on that bandwagon so fast?). She wants a social life and she's met some people that make her feel good about herself in a group. Do you and her have friends to do things with? Do you different things? Try new stuff? Does she feel comfortable and interested in her peers in those circles?
We all go through changes, wonder if we're at where we want to be, wish we could be more like people we admire, etc. Those feelings don't constitute a MLC, they're part of being human and realizing you aren't young anymore, that you aren't necessarily where you thought you'd be, that you feel you've never got a chance to do the things you wanted to do. Quite frankly, I'm all for that! I've known 3 people now who died suddenly in their mid-40s. Too bad they never took time to do those things they always wanted to. It's better to balance expectations of society/career with living a rich, full life of experience.
And there are always slimeballs out there who will try to hump anything that's close. They'll only be effective if you've become a person to get away from.
So, I have to ask, why do you say you're anti-social? Humans are social beings. And if you have less to show for working more, why bother? Want to spend all your free time living for other people until you're retired? Go out and create some fun. Being the person that stays at home and wants to "talk" when someone else has been out laughing and having a great time .... well, not attractive.
Seems to me there are things to be wary of, but to approach it with understanding. It might just be where she's at and how she's dealing with her life, in which case you should support the good and create more good so that the bad looks like what it is. I'm assuming you read "Not Just Friends" and all those. I'd say step up and affair-proof your M.
Just thoughts off the top of my head. Don't know if any of this helps, but I wanted to say something since you helped me.
lodo
ps - we cross-posted. I'd bet that her talking to her sis makes her re-evaluate things between the two of you. Maybe not consciously, but still... And of course she'd deny having those thoughts if challenged. That's why you don't challenge. What you DO is re-find the positives. Show her a confident man who knows what he wants out of life and is willing to have a little fun, be a little adventurous, live life. IMO, if you showed her that, she'd talk to her sis and thank god she had you.
Guys...just skimming over a couple of the posts here but it seems that some of us are going thru this for a second time! My H had an affair in 2001. Now, he is doing it again only this time he is in love with her and it has lasted a lot longer. Is this really MLC? Twice?
M48 H53 M16 T18 S16 D13 SS30 H drops bomb PA/8-30-09 H leaves 12-30-09 D filed by H 2-10 H asks to come home 4-11 Piecing
"My XW had an affair, we got back together, and things were great for 8 years. Then she did it again. But this time she knew what drew her back to me the last time, and she avoided those situations at all costs. Why am I telling you this? Because ultimately, that's the danger. You have every right to be paranoid."
Crazy I tell you, avoiding positions where they would NATURALLY become reattached to their own spouse. Just so they can live in the moment. It usually comes crashing down.
Wow. Look, I know enough about doing this (hey, I was once one of the ones who some thought knew a lot about DBing) and enough about myself to understand that I would LOVE to just be told what I want to hear all the time. That said, I don't expect it at all.
Then you came along Lodo. What you did tonight is actually give voice, a voice not in my own head thankfully, that is suggesting that maybe to a certain extent there is honesty in my wife this time. I KNOW she's not been 100% open with me about all of this but then again, she has reason to think I can't handle certain things. Since the first affair, she's never been shy about taking responsibility for my paranoia and claims that it's taken her this long to finally get over that and get back on the "horse" again in terms of building a social life again. It just totally sucks that at first she didn't really mention OM until it became fairly obvious that it wasn't just a group of friends but more like OM and his friends that were becoming her new social circle. Once OM came to light, she has been fairly open about who he is, that he's a bit of a "player", maybe interested in her but that she's in no way interested in him beyond the context of this group, but that yes, he is the one who introduced her into the group. She claims no matter how drunk, or how out of control she could get, that would never be an option for her. She seems sincere but I also know that even around me she changes dramatically when she drinks, and she's been drunk around/with these people already.
All that said, every R talk we've had (ill advised I know), and I mean the sincere ones without alcohol involved, she's just sat there and taken a beating. I've laid into her about this being an affair all over again, etc, and she's just taken it, fairly calmly for the most part and then consistently denied that it is now, nor will it ever be a problem for me to worry about. Totally not a threat to our marriage. Of course at some point I told her that wasn't her decision to make. Ultimately I would decide if this situation was one I was comfortable accepting. She never really even acknowledged that.
Anyway, I am slowly remembering all those lessons learned in my years here and hopefully Lodo, you're the one closest to right here. I KNOW I have my issues, a lot of which I went to great pains to fix in the past that are now back (controlling, angry, suspicious, not confident, wishy-washy, etc... geez, not a pretty picture). I need to sorta put this paranoia aside and get back to working on that crap. It's just hard, as you all know.
But it seems to me your W isn't there, nor would I say she's having a MLC (why does everyone around here jump on that bandwagon so fast?). She wants a social life and she's met some people that make her feel good about herself in a group. Do you and her have friends to do things with? Do you different things? Try new stuff? Does she feel comfortable and interested in her peers in those circles?
I think this could be the case. She says it is. As for friends, we do have a few but they're more her friends that I occasionally hang with the husbands. None of them are really someone I would call a friend of mine directly. I have tons of peers, acquaintances and then a couple close friends but I tend to spend 99% of my time with my family. I am gone so much with work that I don't really want to do much else. Totally opposite of my W's sitch since she stays home and is alone a lot.
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And there are always slimeballs out there who will try to hump anything that's close. They'll only be effective if you've become a person to get away from.
I hope this is right, and it's the thought that has me wanting to go HARD back into MY changes again... this time for good. If I am back to being that guy again, well, that would suck.
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So, I have to ask, why do you say you're anti-social? Humans are social beings. And if you have less to show for working more, why bother? Want to spend all your free time living for other people until you're retired? Go out and create some fun. Being the person that stays at home and wants to "talk" when someone else has been out laughing and having a great time .... well, not attractive.
I wish it were that easy. I would LOVE to work less, or even smarter but we need all the money we can get. W can't find a job and we have lots going on that we need to sort out financially before I can think of cutting back on my work.
As for my anti-social label, it's really strange, my business demands that I be social. I am told I am fantastic with people and genuinely enjoy interacting with my clients and friends. My biggest problem, and this came up a lot in my old threads as well, is that I don't drink, and don't really understand the whole concept. I get really uncomfortable around lots of drinking, especially when my wife or close friends are involved. It's disturbing to see them lose control. I know this is my issue but it's one that's plagued me for a long time. Oh, and before you ask, everyone does, there's no real reason why I don't drink. Just never have, and have no desire to. No alcoholism in my family that I know of. My dad didn't drink at all and I guess that showed me the way.
So a LOT of my anti-social label comes from the particular aversion I have towards drinking, and of course my wife enjoys the cocktail maybe even a little too much. You can see where the problem may be, yea?
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I'm assuming you read "Not Just Friends" and all those. I'd say step up and affair-proof your M.
Maybe. I read a LOT back in the day. I became a walking self-help library for awhile I will look it up.
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I'd bet that her talking to her sis makes her re-evaluate things between the two of you. Maybe not consciously, but still...
I'm hoping so. It seems like her sis's issues and ours cropped up right around the same time though. Strange.
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And of course she'd deny having those thoughts if challenged. That's why you don't challenge. What you DO is re-find the positives. Show her a confident man who knows what he wants out of life and is willing to have a little fun, be a little adventurous, live life. IMO, if you showed her that, she'd talk to her sis and thank god she had you.
When the affair ended years ago, she did thank god she had me. Told me so MANY times. Thanked me profusely for sticking by her, etc. I really think that she's given me clues over the past few years (like quit the day job and let's make the photography thing work full-time so we can work together) and I have really dropped the ball in not seeing them. Instead I have reverted back into the angry man I was before the last affair. I am NOT to blame if she's up to that again, but I am to blame for whatever part I play in not making my marriage as good as it can be. That starts with me I suppose.
VERY interesting night/morning. W was up late, and yes, was drinking. I came down around 2:30 or so and she asked me if we had anything to eat. I bumped around the kitchen and found something. I was hungry too so we had a snack together. She then proceeded to unload about her sis. She is PISSED. Tears and anger abound. I learned a few things.
First, her hyperbole/lack of truth about things when she's drinking is not just about things in our marriage. She said a number of things that I know were not true about her sister and her marriage. So I guess I take from that a sense that I really can't believe much she says when she's like that. Then again, there was SOME truth in there. Anyway, the bottom line is that when she IS talking R with me, and she's not drinking, she NEVER says the kinds of things she does when she's drunk. I always assumed her inhibitions were just removed and she was spewing what she REALLY thought but I guess not.
Also, I learned that it looks like sis is getting a D, and more than that, leaving the kids with H. W is REALLY upset about that. Oh, and sis is also having a PA, which her H found out about. This is all extremely shocking because up to now, she's been miss perfect to everyone.
My wife went on for a couple hours (yea, not much sleep) about how selfish and unfair her sis is being. How she's a total bit-h and she doesn't even want to talk to her. "How could she do that to her kids... her H?"
Mainly I listened, validated (would likely not have done that as much if I had not come back here yesterday... thanks) but did manage to slip in a couple mentions "don't you see the parallels to our situation?" She pretty much glossed over that. I think I'm glad she did because if not, the convo would probably have turned into a VERY bad one about us. That was the mood she was in. I fairly quickly realized that trying to interject our issues into that convo was a quick path to a big fight.
Today I am resisting the urge to send her a text telling her that especially with how she feels about sis and her sitch, we need to work on "us" and make sure that doesn't happen to our marriage. We need to rid ourselves of the OM and work on us again. I assume the right thing to do is NOT send the text and just let her sis's sitch do the work for me while I sit by and be the good, attentive, validating H? What sucks is how I'm going to feel when, after doing that all week, she announces that she's going out this weekend with her "friends".
Suppose I need to baby step through this one, yea?
Thanks OP. Point taken. I was always good at doing that Just need to journal a bit now...
I can't help thinking that Lodo really hit the nail on the head about maybe my W is at a turning point, not necessarily MLC but something that is on the precipice of it. I am thinking that maybe this is an opportunity for me/us to do things in our lives that will improve the quality of our marriage BEFORE we get to a really bad place again. I can only hope that W is not really involved with OM, and it's just what she says it is. I also hope that as bad as her sis's sitch is, and it sounds bad, that my W learns from her feelings about it and applies it to herself/us. I hope that there is a chance to head this stuff off before it takes roots in our marriage again. I sewed the seeds of our poor marriage in the past, and have been doing that again. No more... I hope. I really want to be a positive force in all this but I have to tell you, there is a LOT of crap going on in our lives, financial, personal, etc, that it's really hard to stay PMA. I will try though.
Your giving yourself good advice, now just start listening to your own advice.
Stop fixing.
So I assume you're saying DO NOT send any texts. I really do want to ask her what about her sis's sitch is actually true and what was the drinks talking. She said she was sworn to secrecy by her sis so I suppose it would be bad form to remind her that she told me?
I suppose I didn't try to resist the convo very much. Had a quick phone convo with W a few minutes ago where she said "sorry" for the long talk last night about sis. I asked her how much was true and she said basically all of it... or at least all the "D" stuff and things about custody, etc. She said she was on her way to lunch with a GF and we would talk later. I said ok, but did break down and send this as a text;
"So i will just say that seeing how you reacted to her situation, doesn't it make you want to make sure we don't end up that way? I know i do but I can't do it alone. I want to sit down and see if we can achieve a goal I now have of quitting the day job by my birthday. I have a lot of ideas. I think that is a step long in coming and it would help across the board with us, the kids, stress, etc, assuming we can make the finances work. We'll talk. Have a good day. Love, H"
I want to drive home the point that it's not lost on me that ALL the marriages we see failing around us, and it's a lot, are failing for exactly the same core reason, or at least according to the women; the men are working too much, never there, etc. I know that's a common issue, especially since many of these marriages have the man as the primary earner and obviously they are going to be gone working a lot but in each of these cases, the men basically made the choice to work more and see their wives/families less (edited: To be more specific, these families, so far as we know, and we think we do, were doing fairly well so they didn't NEED the extra money brought in by extra work. Also, a few of these men are in similar positions to mine, having a primary job and a secondary one taking up 60-80 hours a week and over the years have failed to respond to their wives pleas for them to spend more time at home). I am in a really lucky place in my life in that my business has stayed fairly successful and it really is the time for me to start thinking of working on it full-time. I think I can make a choice that these other men either didn't or couldn't make. Who's to say it will help with my marriage but considering how much credit is given to this being a HUGE factor in these failing marriages we see, I can't see it hurting, ASSUMING I/we can make the financial work. If not, it would do a great amount of harm since money, as with many couples, is a primary source of stress. My wife has asked me to do this for years and maybe it's time I start listening to her
Last edited by grasshopper; 04/07/1003:56 PM. Reason: More clarification
I will look it up.