He has mentioned several times over the past two weeks that he wants to go to marriage counseling with me. First of all, let me say that he didnt come up with the idea on his own... i asked him to go for months now.
Why the sudden change of heart? he is starting to be more normal than not lately and I am not sure how to take it. he said he wants to do something nice for me and after having been selfish for so many years, he wants to do something for me? and he thinks therapy is the answer?
is he just scared to admit that we may be able to benefit from help? or is he trying to get me to counseling to prove we are not meant to be?????
Your H sounds like he needs a good FT to help him work out his feelings...but maybe he needs to go alone first?
I found this advice from Michele WD somewhere on the site: see if it helps? Sorry it's long....
MWD: " I do a great deal of training for marriage therapists. I teach them that it is a cardinal sin to continue to see 2 people who have divergent goals for their marriage conjointly precisely for the reasons you're suggesting. Let me explain. If the therapist sees both spouses together and they disagree about the future of their marriage, over time their disagreements and differences will become even greater. Here's why. When therapy begins, the therapist wants to know what the goal is. Person A states s/he wants to stay married and offers reasons for this position. Person B, hearing this, feels the need to let the therapist know about his or her ambivalence about the marriage and offers a somewhat negative view of things. When Person A hears this perspective, s/he counters by sharing positive memories or thoughts about the marriage, which triggers person B to dredge up even more pessimistic thoughts and feelings. By the end of the session, or several sessions, things escalate to the point of the couple being completely polarized, even more so than when they started!
There's a better way. I see spouses separately. This way, I can help the pro-marriage person strategize about a better, more effective way to try to turn things around IN THE ABSENCE OF THE OTHER SPOUSE. I can give the reluctant partner time to voice concerns or negative feelings about the marriage and make sure this spouse feels heard and understood. Once people truly feel understood, they often give themselves permission to look at things with more of an open mind. Reluctant spouses when seen alone often tell me, "Well, things aren't that bad, but I didn't want to say this before in his/her presence because I didn't want him/her to get his/her hopes up."
But the fact of the matter is that once the words have been uttered- "Things aren't that bad," the dye is cast. It's a good thing. I thank this spouse for his/her honesty and send the person home focusing on some individually-oriented goal. We work toward saving the marriage slowly and subtly.
The long and the short of it is that you can't talk "honestly" about your feelings in therapy if your spouse has half a foot out the door. It doesn't work.
Another option is that the DBing spouse continues for therapy alone, not for "saving the marriage" but under the guise of working on personal goals. Then, of course, working on the marriage singlehandedly becomes the goal.
Hope that helps. Michele
Originally posted by Michele: If the therapist sees both spouses together and they disagree about the future of their marriage, over time their disagreements and differences will become even greater. Here's why. When therapy begins, the therapist wants to know what the goal is. Person A states s/he wants to stay married and offers reasons for this position. Person B, hearing this, feels the need to let the therapist know about his or her ambivalence about the marriage and offers a somewhat negative view of things. When Person A hears this perspective, s/he counters by sharing positive memories or thoughts about the marriage, which triggers person B to dredge up even more pessimistic thoughts and feelings. By the end of the session, or several sessions, things escalate to the point of the couple being completely polarized, even more so than when they started!
I am thinking of a way that I can use this information in my next C session in 2 days.
Wife and I have gone to 4 previous sessions with no real movement from the original - I want to work on marriage - She wants to make it easier for me. We haven't polarized our positions, but we ain't getting any closer either. Each session usually begins with a restatement of these positions.
But, what if I begin session by stating I am perfectly comfortable the way we are (or something to that effect) and see if that gets any response from her. If my comments that I want to work on the marriage gets a response from my wife that she doesn't, would a 180 from me cause my wife to rethink her usual response?
Australian Member Member # 2716 posted December 03, 2001 06:55 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi BluesBoy Yeah why not, it's something different to what you have been doing(and staying "stuck") and dont forget your in the C's office not the divorce court.A divorce wont be granted that day. Lose a minor battle now(on the face of it...although really it's a tactical retreat) to win a bigger battle later on. What you resist persists. MICK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IP: Logged
Michele Administrator Member # 450 posted December 03, 2001 08:50 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bluesboy, I really like the fact that you are thinking of ways to use the information you read here. That's what being solution-oriented is all about! Your idea isn't bad, however, it's a bit risky because you have to consider the context. by that I mean that you are stating publicly that you are okay with the ways things are and that's a bit different that your trying it out in the privacy of your own home. I'd hold off on that just now. There are other things- middle ground ideas- that you can try. What about this...
What if, instead of saying you want to work on your marriage, you use her frame- "to make things easier on you." Then say, "fine, I appreciate that you care enough about my feelings to make things easier on me. So, if you really want to make things easier on me do this---
(You'll have to fill in the blanks here, but these are some examples that might work) Let's work at being friends. I understand that we're not working on our marriage. But that doesn't mean we can't be friends. In order to be friends, we need to talk more, _____ again, fill in the blank.
Do you see what I mean? Use her goal but set the criteria for reaching that goal based on your needs.
I often help couples consider reconciliation by helping them learn how to co-parent their children as a team since they will need to do that afterwards. Guess what. Once couples get their act together to co-parent cooperatively, they start looking better to each other. So it doesn't matter what you call something, just work on goals that often accomplish the same ends. Understand?
And one other thought. Many counselors don't split up spouses because they feel that it confuses things, after all, which spouse is "the client?" What if spouses' goals are different, whose goals do you try to achieve? Which spouse is your client?
I look at this differently. Neither spouse is my client, the marriage is my client. I do whatever I can to help save the marriage. I behave in the marriage's best interest, not either individual.
Hope this helps. I will put this is wise advice section so that people with similar questions can read this thread. Michele"
Thanks P. That was exactly how I envisioned it... i though it was H trying to make me see, along with a C, that we truly have no hope. needless to say, conversations have turned ugly, once again, and I truly need to have NC with him. I say such awful things, and it is not right for him to hear, the baby to hear or for me to say. He is rotten bc of what he did, and I can not become an angry bitter person bc of it.
i did tell him he should go back to counseling on his own.
Another day... more drama...
i need someone to take all of my phones away from me!
i need someone to take all of my phones away from me!
I remember saying that to my folks several times!! It was about 6 weeks ago after a particularly damaging fight that I realised I finally needed to stop the conact as it hurt ME so much (and WAH - but I didn't care too much about that!!!).
This is why No Contact is essential.
You probably need to set yourself a goal. 3-4 weeks. You are early enough in your pregnancy to still do this. NC is going to get harder in a month or so, so do it now is my strong feeling.
If there is something to say to him beofore that, plut it in email. Keep it civil and encourage/wish him well for the counselling for him. Agee what you can agree on, ignore the rest. Be vague about you. Keep him guessing. Don't give him insight into your emotions. Just tell him that you and the naby need space and peace and you know he understands that. Get my drift?
