I had the afternoon to think on this. There is a positive note here.
Your husband acknoweldged he uses people. He acknowledged he lies and plays games with people.
He blames OTHERS though for the flaws in his relationships. He uses people and then quits the relationship when it begins to fall apart.
He has admitted in a way that he HAS a problem. This is a positive. I can`t see him doing that if he didn`t honeslty believe it.
But YOU need to protect yourself and your son from him until he gets some help. If your father can find a referral to a good IC that deals with sociopathy you can snail mail him the business card, but not much else... he needs to want to do this. Any involvement by you is just him taking advantage of you again.
You need to invest minimal time into it or he`s just using you. IN a way he`s using everyone on this forum who contributes to your thread to help him. You need to keep your involvement to minimum. I think a referral to a professional who is trained to help is appropriate, other than that you should just let him do whatever damage he`s gonna do with OW... you know that`s not going to last.
It is a positive that he`s admitted he has a problem. He just needs some direction, but you can`t do that, send a business card for a professional for him and that`s all the time you have for him... every minute more is a minute he steals away from you and your son. Once you get him someone who can help him you have done the best you can do from where I am sitting.
I am still recovering from all the foolishness but still GAL. I took son to take easter pics yesterday and son and I got some GREAT pics together. I can't believe he is about to me 1!
I ended up calling husband yesterday twice, once on his personal cell and once on his work cell. Luckily he didn't answer because the conversation that I wanted to have with him would not have been productive AT ALL. It was an impulse and I wanted to let out all that I have been holding in. In the end I spoke with MIL and told her how hurt by husband's actions. I just went in on ALL the FIRST holidays that husband missed with me and son including (mother's day, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Valentine's Day, and Easter). EVERY major holiday he spent with OW most likely (at least thanksgiving, christmas, and vday). MIL was saying how much her son was saying he enjoyed watching our son grow and being a dad. I told her, well, I can't tell now. He is missing out on a lot of moments with our son.
Anyway, just still upsets me that husband is avoiding me. Then husband emailed me this morning saying "Hey, what r u doing?" I responded "working." Then husband responded "ok...are there any other pics of son from Easter?" No response from me (I shouldn't have responded to the first email).
My MIL sent Easter pics of our son to husband yesterday but I showed her how to do it. I guess she told him that I showed her how to attach pictures on email.
I am still upset. I messed up by even acknowledging him with a phone call or email response but I HATE avoidance. I am confrontational but for the past year of DBing I have tried to avoid (as much as possible) the elephant in the room. Now I am just tired. I just want to put it all out there. I don't want any more "pretending." I want husband to STEP UP and confront me. I am venting and my dad has warned me to not respond to his emails anymore and that I called so do not call ANYMORE. My dad said that whoever makes the call is NOT the one in power. ARGGHHHH!!! Why can't he just say what happened...lets not pretend anymore and just say what this is....
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
1. When you call him, you validate his behaviour and enable him to continue it - even if he donst' pick up, he sees your number and smiles... he knows he's got you again
2. When you text him, you validate his behaviour and enable him to continue it
3. When you send him pictures of your son or allow MIL to do so. it is ENABLING him and VALIDATING him to AVOID YOU... its BLATANT PURSUIT 4luv.. you KNOW that... if MIL is going to share photos of your son with your husband, don't give her any... She's enabling him too
4. Lastly, this is I think the THIRD time your MIL has excused his behaviour with a claim to something her son SAID... "MIL was saying how much her son was saying he enjoyed watching our son grow and being a dad"
Her son has CONNED her COMPLETELY... she isnt' LOOKing at what he's DOing at ALL... MIL keeps listening to his WORDS and basing her opinions on what he SAYS. This is like the THIRD TIME I have READ you post her doing that... she's likley don it a LOT MORE than that. SHe's an enabler.
YOu are using facts - he was not present on any of these days SHE is using his claims - he says he enjoyed watching son grow - how cna he enjoy what he's never AROUND for?
What he's ENJOYING is avoiding responsability... watching YOU do most of the work and HE takes full credit for being a father...
Fatherhood isnt' something he has any right to claim in my opinion... I would tell MIL that... he's not a father... you haven't seen that in him yet at all...
MIL's not supporting you my dear, she's enabling her son... Don't fall for that
you are right. I am just tired and want this to be over. I am tired of the pain and disappointment. I want to just write him out of my life and start over. Wishful thinking but its just how I feel right now.
Your point #1 is spot on. And, yes, after talking to MIL last night I do believe that she is an enabler.
Lesson learned...I promise....staying strong.
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
i keep re-reading your post to get in through my head that any contact is ENABLING. The thing is my husband DOESN'T have me anymore even though I get that is how it is perceived when I contact HIM.
Do I need to damage control on making those calls or do I just act like it never happened and go back to ignoring him?
If I had spoken to him yesterday, I was ready to end it. I was seriously ready to tell him I don't want to be married to him anymore. That there is too much damage done. I REALLY don't see how I can get past all the hurt. I had buried it deep but after talking to FT yesterday I realized that there is not 'rebuilding' trust in our marriage. FT helped me to see that we basically would have to start from zero. We don't have years of a faithful marriage to build on. This is happening from the beginning so its not like I can even look back and say "ok, this was a 6 month affair, but we have been married for 10 years so that means that husband was trustworthy 95% of the time." I just don't know if I want to take the risk and invest in a relationship with someone that has been untrustworthy 98% of the time we've been married. Even without the affair, FT and I discussed how on a logical level, my husband has something against the institution of marriage.
I feel like this is a power struggle between the my husband and I. From reading your response Allen I guess husband has the power again in that he feels like he can continue his behavior because I called him yesterday. How do I fix this? Or do I just keep going forward and just accept that I enabled him AGAIN and move forward. I guess I just want husband FOR ONCE to have to some consequences.
As a side note, I LOVE my FT. We have very good conversations and yesterday he was saying that my husband reminded him of the main character in a movie called "Catch Me IF you can" starring Leonardo Dicaprio. It is based off the true story of a man that basically conned the FBI by writing counterfit checks worth millions of dollars, then he worked doing several different jobs which he had no training including being a doctor. In the end, Dicaprio's character really doesn't face any consequences and ends up actually getting paid by the US Govt to work doing the crime that he was committing of finding counterfit checks.
FT's point was that some 'sociopathic' type people are so charming that they NEVER face true consequences.
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
I saw that film. He DID go to jail. He also had to WORK for the GOV'T to PAY OFF his sentence.. he wans't getting PAID. They just felt he was of more use to the FBI than he was rotting in jail. He was NOT paid.
He was terribly sociopathic, but he did have consequences to deal with. He was tried, went to jail, and then had to work to CATCH people instead of being ONE of them... not fun... and he did that all on his prison sentence time... he wasn't paid.
Re the enabling and damage control.
The ONLY way YOU can CONTROL yourself is to NOT contact him right now. In six months or so you may be able to look at him and SEE fully all the manipulation and NOT let him get AWAY with it.. but right now he can do circles around you and his mother.
You complain that he wasn't around for Easter and was probably with OW... So, he missed Easter.. he never got to enjoy that... so what did you two do? You sent him PHOTOS she he didn't HAVE any CONSEQUENCES... You were kind enough to send him his Easter so he got to be with OW AND pretend in his deluded mind that he's a proud responsible father. He got his cake and ate it too... yet again.
I am not angry, I am scared. I am scared when I see a person have that much control over someone who has shown little to NO moral decency with his choices. He's a teenager with a shotgun.
The only way to disarm him is to shut him out. This IS ending the pain. YOU can do what you want with your life at that point.
Why on earth do you need to TALK to HIM to END YOUR RELATIONSHIP with him?
He seems to be able to end relationships, dance in and out of them without notifying ANYONE and he's perfectly happy with that route. You are from what I can read here doing the same thing mb28 is doing with her H ... trying to NEGOTIATE with someone who does NOT want to COOPERATE in ANY WAY with you.
If you have some leverage on him you might be able to pressure him, but there isn't enough leverage at all from what I can see. His friends and parents enable him and he has little to no conscience.
He wants reassurance that you are in his pocket... the ONLY way you can show him YOU control yourself is to NOT contact him... AT ALL.. For ANY REASON. Even if his son is the hospital.. if he can't be bothered to show up for holidays then don't waste time notifying him about illness... he ONLY cares if he can GET something OUT of it. When he sees YOU struggle to negotiate with him he gets that rush out of it... he can see he has you in his pocket when you are upset and chasing him, calling him, sending him photos... and picking up your phone when he calls.. its all his GAME.
Don't play it.
Tell yourself. I don't want to play that game, it HURTS.. I am taking my BALL and I am going home.. I am NOT even TELLING him I am LEAVING the game... I am just LEAVING.
Give him three to six months with NO CONTACT from you to see what he does.. he needs to DO something on his OWN.. and you keep trying to STEER, PERSUADE, CAJOLE, TALK, BEG, TRICK, NEGOTIATE, REASON WTIH, and otherwise PURSUE him into putting an effort in...
You are the water, and he is the horse.. you are there if he wants to try... but HE has to DRINK.. leave him DO that on his OWN... its time to find out if he can sink or swim... do NOT throw him a ROPE at all.
I suggested the business card from a ref from your father, but my advice is NOTHING MORE than THAT... even THAT is just a token of mercy he does NOT deserve, its for YOUR conscience, not his benefit.
You are wanting to do damage control for the phone calls earlier but you are just rationalizing to CALL him yet AGAIN.. you talk yourself into thinking that calling him is EVER going to HELP.. and it NEVER DOES.. .YOU end up feeling WORSE each time... why put yourself THROUGH THAT?
Thanks for the MUCH needed truth. I have really not been feeling the same since that phone call from OW but I REALLY gotta shake it off.
I guess I am just hurt. I knew alot of things that OW told me from snooping but to hear it come out of her mouth just made it more reality than seeing it in text messages.
While I was putting son to sleep I looked at him sleeping peacefully and just cried. I am so upset that husband is abandoning his family this way. I am so upset that husband treated me like CRAP while we were living together. I am upset that husband missed our son's first holidays. I am upset that husband put another woman and his other child ahead of me. I am upset that husband asked my parents for my hand in marriage knowing all the lies he was holding going into the marriage. I am upset at how my parent's spent part of their life savings so that husband and I could have a dream wedding and husband just acted like marriage was a joke. I am upset that husband made a mockery of our marriage. I am upset over all the times that husband told OW "I love you" and went a whole year without telling me. I am upset that I am stuck being a single parent when husband and I both planned the pregnancy. I NEVER would have agreed to bring a child into what our marriage is now. I am upset that OW may end up with the life that I though husband and I were going to build. I am upset that husband does not value me the way that I thought when we were married. I am upset that husband bought OW Christmas gifts during a time that we were financially struggling and that husband would put son and I in that type of financial trouble. I am upset that husband has changed my outlook on marriage, love, and relationships. I don't know when I will be able to trust another man completely. I am upset that my son won't have a full time father. I am upset that I am stuck picking up the pieces of husband's MESS!
BUT from this point on, I will NOT let this MESS consume me any longer. My son does not deserve a part time mom and I don't deserve to have someone else determine my worth or destiny. I am still blessed and God has delivered me from a situation that I NEVER EVER thought I would be dealing with. Out of this situation I am learning how strong I am. I have learned that I can be a bit TOO forgiving but that is alright. I have started a business that is flourishing all while holding down a full time engineering job and raising my son.
I just had to get out all of the hurt I was bottling up. All my friends and family keep saying how well I am handling everything but they didn't know what was truly inside (and neither did I in a way). I accept those feelings but I know that my husband can't say ANYTHING to make that hurt go away.
I have my backsteps but I really appreciate all the advice and I won't waste your time by NOT heeding the advice.
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
If your H presses you to talk, you can print that sucker up and staple it to his forehead and send him on his way.. especially the last line about you having to clean up his mess... KEEP that paragraph.
Don't send it... wait til he shows up at your door trying to charm you again. shove that in his mouth and walk away.
Go read ALJ's post. I want to see what kind of advice you want to give her when you read what her husband's behaviour is like...
