D in process questions

[Glimmerman]

Quick summary, married 12 years and we have been separated for about 4 mos. Wife filed for divorce in Feb. We have been in contact once or twice per week during our separation. No A for either of us during M. Since separation and then filing, I can't guarantee no EA on her part since we don't live together and have no reason to believe PA, but again we don't live together. I have had neither.

I sought professional counseling on my own at the end of 2009 just after separation, and she said she is now seeking help as well.

Some symptoms exist of both WAW/MLC, but probably lean a shade more toward WAW. Never heard the ILYBNILWY, but instead the growing apart speech. She also said she felt her needs did not come first and was just tired of it and angry.

She wanted to talk recently and we did so for an hour or so. Told me at that time that she was not as certain she wanted to divorce, felt some loneliness etc, but again not certain. Several days later, she said similar things I listened and for the most part the only thing I said was that I was interested in our M.

We have each met with our counselors individually since then. I have been encouraged by my C to be patient. Hers encouraged her to feel comfortable in taking the time she needs to think. I did ask her on a date and she said no. That is when she told me she needed some time.

Looking for thoughts on how to proceed.

[flowmom]

Welcome to this forum! Sorry to read about your situation...we know what you're going through.

Here are some tips to help you get started here:

1. It's very important to read Divorce Remedy, the book that this site is based on. Without having read Divorce Remedy it will be hard for you to properly implement any advice that you get here.

2. When you're posting about your situation stick to a single thread until you have about 100 posts in it. If you start new threads your readers will get confused...it's better to have it all in one place.

3. There are a lot of abbreviations used in this forum -- see the sticky thread in the Newcomers forum with the list.

Posting is light on weekends, but don't get discouraged...others will come along as long as you bump your thread.

Here's something that Sandi posted to me when I joined here:

I often give this list to newcomers as a guide or work plan b/c it is a summery of DB's 180's. Hope it will help.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[Glimmerman]

Thank you Flowmom. I have read DR and familiarized myself with the 180's. What makes my sitch a little unique (or I haven't noticed them) is that my wife did file for divorce and we are in that process.

Since the filing she has expressed at least a little uncertainty in actually wanting the divorce.

The thing is, I can't find much advice on how to handle it when the spouse who files isn't sure it's what they want to do after all. I would love it if it were withdrawn, but I don't want to apply pressure.

How much relationship talk is allowed once divorce is filed?

[DaddyLongShanks]

Glimmerman,

Is there someone else you can get to communicate to her? Or maybe have a flyer put in her mailbox, or a email sent to her with a return address thats not yours about marriage and divorce?

The bottom line is that for it to work, she's going to have to really want you.

[Glimmerman]

Since we have been separated, I think it has given her time to begin to experience what divorce would look like. I think she is enjoying some of the freedom, but doesn't want the loneliness.

I agree that she is going to have to really want me. She is showing some signs of that, but I am proceeding with caution. This is a wife who was really angry. During our recent discussions, she has told me that she is feeling less angry, more lonely, etc.

Thus the fine line I'm walking. DB says to do a 180, which for me is to actually talk to her about our R and how she feels, but I think I need to make sure that she brings up the R talk when we do this. The time or two where she brought up the R talk was fairly successful. Other times when I tried to bring it up, it was not so successful, which I guess is part of experimenting and monitoring results.

After we had a few R talks, I asked her on a date and she said no. That gives me the impression, along with the counsel that she received, to give her more time to think. I know this will take more time. My wife has to be able to trust that I am genuinely interested in how she feels.

I have really liked reading some of Sandi's responsees. They give me a deeper look as to some of the ways that my wife has been and is feeling. Doing a 180 for me is to allow my wife to express herself more openly to me, but I've got to allow her to feel comfortable that she can do that without me shutting her down.

Even though divorce has been filed, I don't believe it's too late. My wife has been open to talking even during this process.

[mza8]

Glimmerman,

Checking in on your thread. You are right, your sitch and mine do have many similarities. My wife never realy told my the ILYBNILWY either. Like your W, mine also told me we were growing in different directions.

I believe my W is enjoying some of her new freedom. In a way, I think it's a good/healthy thing. There definitely appears to be some positive signs from your W. I think it is very good that you both are in counseling. Even if it's just IC at the moment, hopefully it will be counseling together in the future.

I've been separated from my W for almost 6 months now. My W hasn't felt comfortable enough to sit down with me a lot and talk. We've had one R discussion. She opened up a little bit. I think it's good that your W is at least communicating some of her feelings with you. It helps to know what you need to work on when your W tells you.

I too, see hope for your M. You have given me some very good advice and I think if you follow your own advice that you too, will have a chance to save your M. You are headed in a good direction. I'm pulling for you.

Anything new on your end?

[Ken62]

Glimmerman,

I just want to say that I love your point of view and your insights on wives in general. Could you take a look at my sitch and give me some feedback? I would love to let my W do more of the talking and telling me where I screwed up so that I would know more of how to validate her. It seems like when we are together we are working on me and not working on her if you know what I mean. I'm not sure if this is because of her EA/PA and she just doesn't want to deal with our R or what. I know that the EA/PA make it tough and I am GOING DARK and doing NC right now but our S23 will be home next week for a visit and we may see each other then but probably only as a family.

I believe that the D will be final in June and she will be gone in June for at least the summer and possibly longer. I don't think that there is any way that this wont happen. In her mind the D was inevitable (she needs the old marriage over for closure or something) and the EAs were just because she is moving on. She is a very stubborn WAW who does NOT feel that she needs any IC (even with all of her past issues including sexual abuse). She also does not see that she is doing anything wrong as far as her kids are concerned and wonders why the Rs with them are so bad. She is just in a real selfish teenager mode right now but expresses herself like an adult.

If you need any other questions answered just ask in my sitch.

Thanks!

[james217]

has there been an update glimmer? what's going in your sitch now? Any changes or you just keeping your distance and giving her space?

if u get a chance look my sitch. i know it's a mess but i see progress i think lol

[Glimmerman]

Thanks for checking in on me James. No real update with my sitch. She needs time & space, so I don't need to update very often.