Hello, everyone! I posted this down in the Forgiving forum earlier this evening, but it doesn't look like much traffic goes through there, so I thought I should just repost here in hopes of getting some feedback. Besides, I "see" many familiar faces here.
Hey, all. It has been a long time since I last posted. I used to be over in the "Thinking of Leaving" forum. I suppose I should post in Surviving, but today, and frankly for the last 9 or 10 months (yikes), I am struggling with forgiveness.
First, a quick recap of my history:
Me - 35 STBXH - 35 3 sons - 14, 10, and 5 Together for 12 yrs, M'ed for 8 before bomb hit - he had an A S'ed between 2005 - 2008, back and forth w/ reconciliation, DB'ed my butt off thinking I really had to change, and in some aspects, I needed to, but STBXH also needed to meet me halfway (wasn't happening) He moved back home in January 09; trouble, trouble, TROUBLE; I packed up and left in June 09, filed for D for the 2nd time Recently agreed upon a settlement - D will be final in just a matter of weeks
The R was not a healthy one by any means. Those of you who remember my sitch...I'm sure you would rather not relive the memories! Those of you who don't, it was very abusive. Mentally, emotionally, verbally...and I will admit that it went both ways. The majority of the time, the abuse started with STBXH. Other times, I couldn't "forgive and forget", so I would hold a grudge, thus continuing the cycle.
It took me a very loooong time to see just how damaging the R was to my self-esteem and self-worth. There are still challenging moments that I try to deal with, but with the help and support of some truly wonderful people...here and IRL...those moments have become less frequent. For that, I will always be eternally grateful.
When I moved out last summer, I pretty much accepted that the M was over. I wasn't angry. Upset, yes. Disappointed and sad about what was happening, but not angry. I felt let down because he always said it would be different. He could change, he wanted to change, he still loved me, didn't want a D,.....blah blah blah. All of that went on for years. As it's always said though, actions speak louder than words. Very, very true.
I cried a lot that first month after I left. I felt that I missed him. Everything that was familiar to me wasn't there anymore. But then one day, a very dear friend wrote to me: "...you are grieving the loss of a R..." Not STBXH. Understanding the difference helped more than I ever thought possible. Wow.
Anyhow, back to acceptance. I had accepted it was over and wasn't looking to go back, ever. I felt once I had accepted that (and I had), then I could move on to forgiving. I will not say forgetting because honestly, no one can ever really forget. Forgive, yes. Forget, no.
But then, within a matter of a couple months after I left, two things happened that literally pushed me over the edge....and for those two incidents, I cannot forgive STBXH.
For that very first week that I was gone, STBXH called my cellphone and my parents' house (where the boys and I are currently living) every day, nearly every hour or so, urging, begging and pleading with me to come back. He loved me, he missed the kids, he wanted our family to be together. I ignored him. Ignored the calls, ignored the texts, ignored the door when he would randomly show up. After that initial week, he finally backed off.
Two weeks later, I picked up the boys from MIL after their weekend with STBXH. On our way home, I asked if they had a good time with their dad. They did, and it also came out that STBXH's "friend" was there, too. (He dated this OP during our S, and even after he moved back home, I had always felt that she was never really out of the picture.) That stung, really bad. What was worse was when my children told me that OP was there the VERY weekend after I had left and was spending the night, every night while they were there.
I had only been gone ONE WEEK before my children saw another woman sleeping in the very same bed their mother had been in the week before.
I cannot forgive him for that.
His professions of love and wanting me back, working it out....then that happened one week later...showed me just how easily I could be replaced. Showed me just how little I really meant.
The 2nd incident:
S5 was participating in T-ball last summer, and STBXH wanted to be able to go to the games, too. Of course. Not an issue. I did, however, request one thing. That his "friend" was to never be around at any event where he and I would both be there. That also included the times when he and I would exchange the boys. I had absolutely no desire to ever see nor meet her. That may be a bit immature, but that is how I felt. He agreed to it; said he would never do that and it wasn't a problem. Good. He understood where I was coming from and seemed to care.
Well, I dropped the kids off to him at his house one day and was going over some info he needed to know. As I was speaking, he said, "You can come inside if you want. You don't have to stand outside." I thanked him but said no thanks; it was still a bit painful to even be there...to be at what used to be my home and knowing that another female had been in it. I was comfortable outside.
He then walked inside, leaving while I'm in mid-sentence, and from inside said, "Why don't you just come in?" I didn't answer him because I upset with his rudeness (walking away while I was talking about important kid matters). I just waited for him to come back to the door. Then when he did, he said, "Would you like to come inside and meet ("friend")?"
What would have happened if I did decide to go in.....NOT knowing that OP was on the other side of that door....??????
And he said she would NEVER be around when we exchanged the kids.
For that, I cannot forgive him.
I honestly believe he was trying to set me up. I think he wanted to see if I would go apesh!t and cause a scene...and I think he wanted OP to witness it so he could have some sort of "proof" that I am/was an emotionally unstable person. At the time, we were in a heated battle over timeshare of the boys - he wanted FULL custody. HA!!!! I am the one who has always been there for the boys. I have done EVERYTHING. All STBXH did was financially support us. In the last several years of our M, he was hardly ever there as a father. It is different now though. He is there much more often and does things with the boys. I am glad about that. It has always been important to me that the boys' dad be very active in their lives, D'ed or not, and STBXH is doing it. That is a good change.
So, those were the two events that broke the camel's back. The first damn near did the job itself; the second...that did it. I didn't care anymore and DBing went out the window for good (where STBXH was concerned).
For a few months, whenever I had to talk to him and if he said anything that triggered something, I let him have it. Told him exactly what I thought of him and how much I hated everything he CHOSE to do that led to the destruction of our family. It wasn't pretty, and I am NOT proud of how I chose to react; I could've handled it much, much better and in a respectful, civil manner...but at the same time, I let go of a lot of anger that I kept hidden inside for far too long, and how I came across was the least of my cares.
I cannot see being friends or even "friendly" with STBXH anymore. I do my best to be civil when I have to be, but I do not care to chit chat with him, hear about his day, nor share anything about my personal life these days with him. He seems to want that....and it just amazes me. Not in a good way either.
Anyway, he continues to apologize...a lot...for all that has happened. For cheating, for lying, for treating me the way he had, for "f'ing our lives up", for taking me for granted.
I am SO SICK of the apologies. They mean absolutely NOTHING to me. It's sad, but that's what it has become. And every time he apologizes, after I've told him time and time again that I do not want to hear it anymore, it makes me angrier and angrier because I do not believe him, and that does nothing but set me off. It makes all the bad that happened come right back to the surface.
And I want to say that I do NOT dwell on the past every day. It might pop up here and there on its own, but then I typically sigh it away. I remember it, but it doesn't get me down. It is only when STBXH brings it up with his sorries.
I "get" that he can't forgive himself; that's what this is. I just don't understand why he keeps looking to me for that forgiveness. He should be seeking it from within. I feel like he wants to hear that I'm ok. That I'm alright with this D happening. Well, I am not ok. The D is almost final, and I accept that...but I am not ok with how he treated me and how he wishes we could just be "friendly" despite all that has occurred.
I don't believe I will feel this way forever. I do believe that I need time. LOTS of time...and I feel like he's trying to rush me (for his own personal reasons). I have told him this, he says he understands, but I don't think he truly does. Otherwise, why the constant phone calls and texts about how sorry he is, how he can't forgive himself, etc, etc?
BTW, I only recently gave him my new #. I changed it after I moved out so the annoying calls/texts would cease. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't given it to him again because he wouldn't call the house phone (I'm sure it's because he didn't want my parents to hear just how messed up he really is inside).
So how do I move on when STBXH can't? We both know the R is OVER, but he says despite friends telling him not to beat himself up so much, he just can't do it...and when he springs the apologies on me, it does nothing but trigger a negative reaction from me. Even after I say "stop right there please"...basically giving a 'warning'...he still won't listen...and that's where it all goes downhill.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Hi there! I think I'm one of the familiar faces. Glad to see you!
I think going NC is probably the best way of detaching and moving on. At least for me it is. I haven't given X my cell number or work number. He does have my home # and both my work and home emails, so that's more than enough.
I do think a lot of us are in Surviving now. I know a few of us reconciled, but I think it's probably easier sometimes to move on to healthier people than our WAS. At least it seems to be....
I also think that something in the direction of NC is probably the way to go. Here's the thing... you just can't control what he's going to do or say. So you either have to control your reactions, or limit the opportunities, or a bit of each.
Hi there! I think I'm one of the familiar faces. Glad to see you!
I think going NC is probably the best way of detaching and moving on. At least for me it is. I haven't given X my cell number or work number. He does have my home # and both my work and home emails, so that's more than enough.
I do think a lot of us are in Surviving now. I know a few of us reconciled, but I think it's probably easier sometimes to move on to healthier people than our WAS. At least it seems to be....
Of course you're one of the familiar faces! How's it going, Karen?
Originally Posted By: Virtually_Handsome
(((((GF)))))
Long time no see!
I also think that something in the direction of NC is probably the way to go. Here's the thing... you just can't control what he's going to do or say. So you either have to control your reactions, or limit the opportunities, or a bit of each.
You're both right. NC would be best...BUT...we have kids...and I've said to STBXH many, MANY times that convos are to be limited to the kids and nothing more. THAT'S IT - that is all I am willing to discuss with him. Someday, I hope it can be different....someday I hope it gets to the point where I don't tense up at the thought of HAVING TO communicate with him. Yeah - it's THAT bad.
I have a lot of anger for what he's done...and just to clarify, it's not like I'm a total biatch when we have to talk, but something does take over my mood when we do. The best way I can describe it is I go numb and soon stiffen up as if to always be on alert. I'm guarded and non-trusting when it comes to him...the walls immediately go up.
I understand I have no control over anything but myself...but sometimes I honestly believe that the only way I can ever get through to that man....when NC just doesn't cut it....is to just say what's on my mind, no matter how it comes out. Brutal honesty. I don't want to hear about how he's "struggling", financially and emotionally....WTF does he think the boys and I are doing? It's not exactly peaches-n-cream over here, buddy.
It angers me because we are all STRUGGLING...thanks to the POOR choices HE made....and now he wants to whine about it. PUH-LEASE!!
Ok, vent over.
If I had my way, I would never speak to him again. EVER. But, he and I have 3 amazing boys together. I try my hardest to stay strong and keep it together for their sake and theirs alone.
(((Thanks, Karen & Jeff)))
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
(((((GF))))) So, somehow, it would be good to figure out how to calm yourself, maybe even before you have to talk to him. Or, at worst, come up with a way to shut him down when he goes off the acceptable path. Maybe even just walk away? I don't know. I really see the problem. You have to talk to him, and he goes off the rails. And it gets to you. We will think about this some more!
My good old standby is to think of him as nothing more to you than the mailman. It does get easier over time. I don't go out of my way to contact me or I him.
My ex doesn't spend a lot of time with them and when he does it is usually with his GF too. So he really doesn't have much one on one time. These are the choices he has made and I am not going to tell him how to parent unless it involves the safety of my kids.
Hang in there.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I have anger issues on my X's side. He basically just yells 99% of the time. So I limit allour discussion re: the kids to email. It's easier when he brings up stuff not related to the kids to just ignore and delete those and not get side-tracked. I have 2 special-needs children and it works out well to keep it to email.
It sounds like when you try to discuss the kids you side-track into anger and other issues, so until you are able to do that limiting your discussions to email helps you detach. I believe I am 99% NC with my X, trying for 100%, the way we do it even though we do have children. I have a hard time, b/c if I had a mailman that yelled at me every time he saw me; that would be weird, but I do like that analogy...
Thanks for the advice, all. I really do appreciate it. It IS easier when communication is done through email and/or text because then I can just ignore the things he brings up that get to me. Even when he sends an apology email or text, I will either send a reply that simply states "I know" or I don't reply at all. I am aware of how sorry and remorseful he says he is for all that has happened...I just do not wish to hear it anymore. I feel like I gave him more than enough chances to apologize or make it right, yet he chose to never take them, so yeah. I just don't want to hear it anymore.
Ugh. Anyway.
He sent me a text today asking if I believed life had a plan? Did I believe that everything happens for a reason? I answered back (probably shouldn't have) that I believe there are reasons why certain things happen, but I do not believe that life ever follows a plan. I asked why, and he responded that he was just wondering. That this is the kind of stuff that goes through his mind everyday. He wonders if any good will ever come out of this D. For me or for him. I did not respond to that.
It is good that neither one of us aren't at each other's throats anymore, hurting each other beyond repair...but no matter what, I still don't believe that any good comes from D.
(((Thanks, all)))
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
GF, sorry to hear about your sitch. It sounds like you've decided to let go because you don't believe he'll change - even though you feel nothing good will come from D? Is there anything he can do at this point to change your mind?
I selfishly ask because my WAW probably feels the same way as you and we're headed for a D. However, being in CA too the laws are so f'd up that I feel I have to D her before we're considered 10+years of marriage and then I'll really be screwed.
Deep down I still want her to come back but my previous 180s (and I've backslided at times over the years) or my LRT have done really nothing.
Me: 35|WAW: 38|D: 6yo | http://tinyurl.com/2dxx7m6 Feb 2006, left, came back in two weeks Aug 2006, left again Apr 2007, filed for divorce Dec 2007, reunited Mar 2010, moved out, filed again
Gee it's nice to see you. It's been FOREVER! I will tell you that I just read you very last post, and ...
"He sent me a text today asking if I believed life had a plan? Did I believe that everything happens for a reason? I answered back (probably shouldn't have) that I believe there are reasons why certain things happen, but I do not believe that life ever follows a plan. I asked why, and he responded that he was just wondering. That this is the kind of stuff that goes through his mind everyday. He wonders if any good will ever come out of this D. For me or for him. I did not respond to that."
I actually giggled at this. He wants your help. I'm almost afraid to say this, but he sounds like a confused little boy. There's an old saying (you've probably heard it): "If you can't enjoy the journey, at least enjoy the ride." And, in the case above, I think you should have fun with him, not necessarily make fun of him, but play with him a little. That'll confuse the sh-- out of him. :):):):):)
