The dreaded LIMBO

[4luv]

there was more to the convo probably but above is the basic gist...i was re-reading it and it does sound pretty basic. I didn't want to give husband too much during the convo so I tried to hold back. I don't want to walk out EVERY step for him. I really mean that he needs to figure this out on his own. If I am around when he figures it out, Great, if not, also GREAT :-)

[4luv]

I wanted to add one more thing...

Alot of me being happier does have to do with GAL and being away from the negative actions of husband; however, alot of it also has to do with relocating from the area husband and I were living in due to husband's job.

We BOTH hated the area. When we were first having problems we both were hoping for a relocation soon from his company. At the time husband was blaming his feelings on our marriage and being away from family and friends but MOSTLY on our marriage. I think now he is realizing that he STILL doesn't like the location (even without me around) and is just as miserable.

[ALJ]

Hi 4Luv,

I was reading through your sitch a little and your WH and my WH are acting similar in some ways. He moved 14 hours away from us because he has always wanted to move down south and I guess he thought that being away from me was going to solve all his problems and he was going to be happy but things are not turning out the way he wanted. There is OW in my sitch and she has moved down south with him but things still aren't peaches and cream because he is having major money problems. The following quote is what you wrote that your H told you,

"The thing about me is that when I put my mind to something I stick with my decision even if it is to my detriment. So with this apartment thing, its like I am trying to get something that I feel i missed out on even if it costs me dearly. In the end I might look back and realize that it wasn't worth it but I still am going to do it regardless. that is just the way I've always made decisions."

I believe this is the exact same thing my WH would tell me regarding him making the mistakes that he has over the past year. My H has stated that he is going to stay down south and maybe in a couple of years he will be happy. I think he is trying to prove a point no matter how much it hurts his family, just to say that he was right about his feelings regarding me. My H needs to grow up. I really admire how you have handled your communication with your H.

[Allen A]

H: Will you move back up here with me?
Me: You have work to do before you move in with anyone - stop lying and cheating for starters.

H: I guess you are right. What do you want to see from me?
Me: It isn't about me, its about me and my son. He needs a father, but I haven't seen one.

H: You are right. It wasn't right the way I acted. I think I was just acting out. I was a ticking time bomb. I didn't want you around to see me destruct. I still feel like I am going to destruct.
Me: Nothing

H: It is like I want to try to make our marriage work but at the same time I feel I might not be doing it for the right reasons. I just don't know how I feel. And when I talk to you I can tell that you are happy. I actually feel the happiness from you. You seem so different from when we were living together. Like you got your pep back. But me, I am still in the same place...just as unhappy. I mean, I know you are not happy with the situation but you seem to be happy with life still.

Me: I've been working to become a good parent instead of playing mind games and lying to people.

H: I need to talk to someone but i dunno.

Me: I am not your mother - you want to be a parent and a husband to someone one day you need to learn how and stop making excuses. Being a husband and father isn't a part time job or a full time job - its a twenty four hour a day seven days a week PRIVILEDGE that you EARN.

H: i just haven't had time but i guess you could say it wasn't a priority. The thing about me is that when I put my mind to something I stick with my decision even if it is to my detriment. So with this apartment thing, its like I am trying to get something that I feel i missed out on even if it costs me dearly. In the end I might look back and realize that it wasn't worth it but I still am going to do it regardless. that is just the way I've always made decisions.

Me: You hurt people. As long as you make decisions on your own you will be alone - my son will have nothing to do with you. When you are a husband and a parent you make decisions as a FAMILY - not solo. You want to be a parent without the responsability - that hurts me and your son. Your decisions hurt people.

H: sometimes good and sometimes bad. Its like i am going to do enough to make sure our son is taken care of and I know that he is being well cared for so i don't have to worry about that. i just want to get back what i feel i missed out on even though i am not sure what it is yet. I am chasing something and feel like i can't stop until i get it. and i didn't want you around while i went down that path.

me: You should have thought of that before you cheated on me, before you married me, before you decided to have sex and become a father. That chasing nonsense ends when you graduate high - school. It's just an excuse to avoid adulthood.

H: I wouldn't say I am an addict but you are right when you put it like that.

Me: Good luck with that.

H: you are right. Well, I feel a little better after talking to you. I was reading a card my mom gave to you when we first started dating and she told you that she knows I love you even if I don't show it. I never learned how to show love the right way but my mom was right about that card.

Me : Love is action, that's where it begins and ends - and for far too long you have been treating me like $hit.

[Allen A]

there was more to the convo probably but above is the basic gist...i was re-reading it and it does sound pretty basic. I didn't want to give husband too much during the convo so I tried to hold back. I don't want to walk out EVERY step for him. I really mean that he needs to figure this out on his own. If I am around when he figures it out, Great, if not, also GREAT :-)

You have the right attitude for sure.

You handled the convo great.

I gave you some alternate suggestions if another call comes in... feel free to use any of them.

Believe me I understand how hard it is to think on the spot, its a LOT easier for me to read a convo and type out some smart a$$ answers in front of a keyboard.. don't worry if any of mine sound any better.

You stood your ground and controlled yourself. You didn't let him in, that's the important part.

I dunno about the "I feel better after talking to you." He shouldn't feel better.. he should feel like crap.

If HE comes to talk to YOU and HE feels better afterwards it was just another selfish exchange and he was after something yet again... just another sociopathic transaction.

Your H needs to learn that every convo isnt' about HIM feeling better afterwards. What kind of PARENT is he going to be to a child when they start learning by observing? I can't imagine you want your child growing up to talk to people in order to FEEL better about themselves... is that the basis for a social skill set for a child?

"We talk to people in order to make us feel better."

If you follow that through then people won't talk to anyone if they feel like the conversation will be at all uncomfortable. It is just a ticket to run.

Anyhow, I am rambling and you likely already know this...

He's saying the right things for the most part. But he's DONE NOTHING... so at the moment your best conclusion is that he's trying to charm you again and get a free pass back into marriage... that's the optimistic conclusion.

And even THAT ain't all that hot.

You have the right idea. You just throw him the odd finger pointing him in a better direction, but don't put too much time into him. Every minute into him is a minute away from you and your son.

I can't think of a snappy comeback for the "I feel better after having talked with you" line... I will have to think on it.. or maybe you can post one here that you like.

Great convo though.. I think you handled that really well.

[Allen A]

Hi 4Luv,
I believe this is the exact same thing my WH would tell me regarding him making the mistakes that he has over the past year. My H has stated that he is going to stay down south and maybe in a couple of years he will be happy. I think he is trying to prove a point no matter how much it hurts his family, just to say that he was right about his feelings regarding me. My H needs to grow up. I really admire how you have handled your communication with your H.

I agree with you ALJ, I think I made a comment in your thread some time back that these two men had a lot of similarities.

They both want to be a parent without the work or the responsability.. which means you two ladies get to do the work of two-parents while he smiles to himself and tells everyone he's a Dad free of charge.

I am wondering if you both started referring to yourselves as "single-moms" if that would give them a kick where they need it.

Men usually don't like to be deadbeats to their families. They will lie and cheat, but as providers most men that is primal and they won't stand for it.. its humiliating to have people think or know you can't or aren't providing for your children.

I will have to think on that. If you guys refer to yoruselfs as single mothers instead of wives I am wondering if that might send a more powerful message. Effectively you are so... I will have to think on that.

Keep it up both of you. These guys need the examples you are providing for them... just don't let them reap any rewards until they do the work. Once they do the work, then they get the rewards.

[4luv]

Well...

looks like I will am throwing in the towel. I was all ready to enjoy a drama free easter weekend and low and behold I get a call from the OW (the one that my husband has a child by prior to getting married). Just for background...The OW has NEVER called me. The first time that I ever saw inappropriate text messages between her and my husband back in Jan 2009, I contacted her to find out what was going on between her and my husband and she gave me attitude. Ever since then I didn't feel the need to contact her because I didn't want to elevate her status in my marriage and I realized that she would lie for my husband.

Tonight however, OW must have had a change of heart. Apparently my husband drove out of state to see her and their child. My husband did NOT tell me he was out of state and we were actually on the phone for about an hour today while I was driving to another state for a wedding. HE said he was keeping me company since i was driving so early.

When OW called she didn't say hello or anything...she started with "4luv, (husband's name) wants to speak to you."

Me: Excuse me...
OW: your husband needs to tell you something (as she is yelling for my husband to get on the phone)

PHONE DISCONNECTS AND OW calls me right back

OW: (husband's name) hung up the phone.
Me: are you in our state
OW: no, your husband is visiting me
Me: ok, what is going on...
OW: he wont get on the phone to tell you
Me: well why don't you say what it is?
OW: he is up here with me
Me: well, we are still married...matter of fact he JUST begged me to move back in the new apartment.
OW: (gets REALLY upset) Oh really!!! I found that apartment for him (and then she says the address, which I already knew because husband had the address updated on our car insurance and sent me the new card).
Me: I already know the address. but anyway, we are married. We ML on a regular basis still....matter of fact, we just spent a weekend together this past week ML.
OW: (more upset) Really, he is lying to BOTH of us then
Me: but what about you? you know that we are married
OW: don't get mad at me, you should be mad at your husband
Me: don't worry about what i feel about him...that is between me and him...what about your morals.
OW: your husband is suppose to be moving to my state
Me: well that is funny being that he has been applying for jobs down here closer to our families and our hometown
OW: see how he is lying to both of us. he told me that me and our son were moving to his new apartment
Me: well why are you even messing with a married man?
OW: aren't yall going through a divorce
Me: nope, we haven't even MET with or even filled out a single paper pertaining to that. and even if that were the case, y are u in a position to mess with a man that is married. you talking about moving to our state...do you even have a job?
OW: you don't need to worry about that, sweetie, and he told me yall were getting a divorce.
Me: nope, we haven't even looked into that. Furthermore, my husband AND his brother who was living with us have BOTH showed me the letters and your text messages. My husband said that he just tells you whatever you wanna hear to keep the peace for his son's sake. They both laugh at the stuff you write.
OW: oh really!! (yelling for husband to get the phone). Did you know that he sends me money every month
Me: yes, we are married, we have the same account. and I AM THE ONE THAT SENDS THE MONEY FOR MY HUSBAND'S SON TO YOU. But you better have enjoyed it cause that is stopping.
OW: whatever...fussing some more (then phone disconnects...i am assuming she hung up or husband hung it up)

I am PISSED!! I wish I would have controlled myself more when talking to her. I just had been waiting so long to give her a piece of my mind. Remember we were associates at one point. I spoke out of emotion. I was so upset that she wanted to play the victim too and kept saying "he is lying to the both of us!!!" I had a 3 hour drive to process all that took place.

I am most upset that husband was a coward and didn't even bother to speak to me but let another woman talk to me like that in front of him. he was so lame that he wouldn't even call me from his phone but instead kept hanging up the phone. And he hasn't even sent a text message or called to even apologize. I know this is DB but enough is enough. The above conversation is some high school mess. I have a child, am a working professional, entrepreneur, and too FLY to be dealing with this mess. I was tempted to call husband but I couldn't think of ONE good reason or one thing to say to him. I already know that he is going to avoid me. I have never seen a man act so cowardly. If you are gonna play the game at least own up to it when it gets down to it. Looks like NC is easy now. I gotta look out for me. I tried to keep the door cracked open for husband to wake up and for us to repair this but his actions tonight REALLY showed me whose interests he has and they are DEFINITELY not mine nor my son's.

So, game plan...filing for legal separation (not ready to file divorce) and for child support.

[Allen A]

Wow... Sorry 4luv, but I actually think you handled it all quite well considering. I actually would'nt file for anything.. that's what OW WANTS you to do. She clearly is TRYING to get you to let him go... so... don't... stay married so she really can see what a coward he is.

I dunno. If its just because you are angry about the whole thing I would reccomend not filing for separation or anything. If its MONEY issues and such then that's a different story.

Yes, you are better than this. Don't act out of emotion. Just hold off. I am NOT telling you to call H or contact him in ANY way. I have been saying for MONTHS to avoid all contact with him including any visitations he may pursue with his son.

But, you are right that your H was acting cowardly... infidelity is a cowardly action. Lying to avoid ownership is cowardly...he's afraid of the consequences so he lies to avoid them...

Anyhow.. I think OW was trying to pressure you into separating and divorcing... I think that's why she called. Don't do this because she got to you. Yes, your H showed some unsavoury character tonight, but don't act right away on this... really.. the OW will be as smug as can be if you did... and I don't think you want that. Just let it simmer and see if she actually does end things on her end... YOU don't have to take H back, but you can hold off. The longer you stay married to your H the more fights you seem to be causing over there.

[mdoodles]

hi...i havent been around much but i check in now and then...i caught your last post...im sorry i dont know your whole story but based on your post, here is my advice...#1, read through my thread if you have the time....#2, if you do not want a divorce or separation, do not file for the separation!!!!! the ow is getting what she wants, that was her goal...but please, do file for your child support...you can do that without getting the marriage involved...

it is so very hard to not talk to the ow when they call, when you want to explain your side...but the best thing u can do, is do nothing...trust me...read my thread...

[4luv]

Thanks Allen.

I appreciate the support. I was talking out of anger last night and I agree that I am not going to make one move. I want to see if husband follows through with filing since he has obviously told OW that we are separating. I actually called my MIL last night after the conversation because I didn't know who else to call and vent to. She was upset for me and said that she just had talked to my husband yesterday and he was telling her that he had been spending a lot of time thinking about me and our son and getting his family back and that he needs to dealwith a lot of his own demons. I told her it was all bull chit at this point. MIL has never met OW in person but has talked to over the phone before and said she won't ever mince words with me or her. MIL will tell her just as she would tell me her thoughts and exactly what her son says to her when they talk.

MIL also seems to think that the reason OW called me is because she was probably giving my husband an ultimatum andhe was either stalling and she must have realized that things weren't progressing. In other words, OW was marching to the drum of whatever my my husband told her but now she has decided to take things in her own hands because obivously things weren't moving according to how she planned. See, my husband just moved into his new apartment (which OW supposedly found for him). She was most likely expecting that he would be moving her and her son in very soon but I KNEW that would not happen. One thing I do know that husband is truthful about is wanting to live the single bachelor life. So I knew that he wasn't going to have one family move out to only move another one in. He doesn't want the responsibility.

I think that husband is going to turn this on me. That is how he operates. Instead of owning up he will find a way to blame me for "telling OW our business." HE will make it seems as though we were about to get back together but I ran my mouth, blah, blah , blah and didn't take up for him. Sounds crazy but this is how he will spin it.