I have absolutely no problem detaching from the emotions of ML at all. I used it purely as a tactic in the past and I am now. I guess that detachment is one of the things that made it work last time. During the last alien episode, H would ML but keep his eyes closed, not touch me at all, just lay there like a fish. I didn't care at all. If I did, it may have hurt me. I was after the bonding chemicals which are released after. Sure, if it was passionate and loving, those chemicals may be stronger but if they're there at all, I'm happy.
One thing I did wonder about is whether if he - in his drunken stupor - thought I was OW, then maybe she got the benefit? It isn't a purely physical thing. If you're thinking of someone else and the chemicals are released, I bet the benefit goes to the person being thought of? Interesting thought, perhaps drunken ML is not a good tactic. Wonder if there's any research.
I asked him to go back and read some things that he had posted on here before about being an alien and thinking OW was his soul mate. Not sure if that backfired or not.
He changed a tire for me today and was in a generally good mood (very rare with me) and looking in my eyes. Just looked like he felt good about himself. Before he left for karate class tonight he stood in the doorway and said he was going to the apt to look for a rent check... which I knew wasn't there and he'd never go for that. I knew he was going to meet with her. I said there's no check there so you don't have to go. He just stood in the doorway looking really sad. He looked like he wanted to say something and really took his time standing there. It almost looked to me like he didn't want to go and there was an internal struggle. He's been staying out all night on Thursdays also, so if there are any praying people out there, please pray with me that he'll return home tonight at a regular hour.
Oh, and he promised that not only would he go to R but he would TRY to actually participate. He said I can't make him and I agreed. I asked if he'd at least give it a good try for the benefit of the 12 years we've been together.
He came back home 4:30 this morning, back to back sleeping, but didn't pull away when he touched me. Lots of sighs when he becomes more conscious.
I think next week I'll take FIL up on his offer to help me clean out the apt and change the locks to get it rented. Get rid of their love (infidelity) nest. Plus, we need the cash or we're going to lose the house. I'll expose this weekend and take away their meeting spot next week.
Today we're all going bike riding as a family. Good chance to show him my good side again. Another common interest.
But your challenge to this reasoning is a good one.. he won't limit himself, but few OW are satisfied having sex with soemone's WS unless they were told he was NOT sleeping with his wife anymore.. its a spin on the exposure theory.
Rather than exposing teh affair to his family and friends, you expose the husband cheating on his mistress to the mistress... its a bit different, but I agree most OW would not tolerate being lied to.. and yes I would think most men would like and say they aren't having sex with thier wife anymore.
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Interesting way to look at it, Allen. You always make me think!
I'd be in favor of this, if . . . IF . .. the betrayed spouse can view this dispassionately as a TACTIC, and use it to their advantage, without letting it get in the way of their detachment.
I think VERY few can actually pull that of, and most go all "melty man/woman" on ya, and lose their edge, in my experience. Puppy
After finding out about my H's A I was intimate with H asap - and then phoned OW to tell how recently it was we had been intimate. No 'meltiness' involved - cold determined steel......and proving a point.
Personally I found this a very good tactic.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Even if she doesn't believe me, it will put a doubt in her head and as much as I can get into her head the better.
I'm one of her facebook friends, but I'm reluctant to post anything there or it may be shared with DH - better to keep it my word against hers, and if I continue to be rational and sane but can put cracks in her facade, all the better. Time to go on the attack. I'm really hoping she's not telling the truth about her H because it will be so much easier with an ally on my side against this A. If they're separated then it's going to be that much harder. She posted a pic recently on facebook saying that her H was ordering a veggie burger, so I know at least in public he's still her H and they go out together.
Well just got back from bike riding. Had good time with DSD - we walked. We got all the way there and DH had noticed a slow leak in my tire but it turned out to be a fast leak. H and DSS rode. I noticed when he was talking to me several times he looked in my eyes and seemed content, if not happy, but then he'd realize it and almost you could see the will he used to look away, not look at me, keep his body language turned away from me.
It was funny but on the way home, he kept looking out the window (I drove) and every time he did, I'd swerve, and he'd look back ahead. I think he caught on, but it was fun anyway. I was getting angry at his insistence at trying not to connect with me so I just wanted to have some fun with him.
What do you guys think about this behavior? IMHO I believe that if he wasn't afraid that he still has feelings for me, he wouldn't do those things. He doesn't want to touch me, look in my eyes, etc. He's afraid to. I mean, if you hate someone, it's a strong emotion and it means you care on some level. I am thinking the same of this behavior, because when he's subconscious (asleep) he'll get close to me, even purposefully move to touch me with his body, but when awake he looks like he's trying to remember to be distant.
Getting nervous, my exposure will happen tomorrow. I really still think I will tell best friend, I want it blown wide open. The way DH is acting, he needs a dose of reality.
FIL is going to change locks on apt on Tuesday. I was there today, there is nothing except a towel, and tons and tons of alcohol, empty and full.
I wouldn't get too caught up in anyone behaviour he has... you really want to focus on consistent imporovement. If you get too caught up in analysing each move he makes its tantamount to pursuit and it WILL make you VERY ILL long term.
Whether he cares or not, whether he's trying to avoid you, this is not really that useful as information. The actions that bring him back are reality.. tons of it... exposure is the route to go here. Analyzing his behaviour at THIS point isn't too helpful.. you KNOW he's cheating, you KNOW he feels uncomfortable about everything... Not much more info to be gained there.
He needs lots of reality thrown his way and zero else... no fantasies or validation of them
OK, so I've gone back and forth with exposure plans and gotten good advice, but just to solidify the latest and ask opinions... hope Puppy gets on here before Sunday also - love to hear everything you guys say, both of you (Allen and Puppy). Anyone else please chime in with advice. (not leaving you all out, just that Pup and Allen are the most vocal on my thread)
1. Expose to H - keep brief and to the point - I plan to ask him to break all contact with her until Retro, although I know that's a long shot, I may be able to appeal to his sense of responsibility. It's in there somewhere. Along with exposure, H needs a new car and I plan on telling him that I will NOT be taking marital assets to buy a car so he can go see OW. I may suggest that we split up our money 50-50 as long as we live here. 2. Expose to OWH - I'm hoping I can catch him at work or else I will have to try their home phone which will be tricky. (hoping he doesn't know and that he wants to save their M) - guess all I can do from that point on is hope he gives me her cell number because all I have is their home phone and not even sure if it's the right one. MIL got it from her net detective subscription. Will try to make an appointment to go and see OWH in person to talk at length. 3. Expose to OW - tell her that I know, she's ruining our lives, breaking up a family, hurting many people, she is not the first "soul mate" he's found outside of our M, and by the way, I hope she uses a rubber or doesn't have any STDs, although I'm going to get tested anyway. 4. Try to get to see best friend with MIL & FIL to expose to him - although he already knows, I'm hoping that hearing my side will at least make him say to H that he doesn't want to be in the middle, and bring her around after the D but not before. I know that I was planning a party and H asked him to keep their "secret" secret, and he was uncomfortable even seeing me so he asked him to call off the party... and I know the moral character of this man. I know he's very uncomfortable about keeping this secret, but H is a very good friend and he's doing what he thinks is best, only knowing H's side of the story. 5. Go change the locks on apt, making them find somewhere else to meet. Will become tricky, unless they just go have sex in a car somewhere. OW lives an hour away and H's car is not in good enough shape to make it. Anyone know how to change a lock?
Comments? I'm sick to my stomach, although by tomorrow I will be strong and ready, I'm sure. Lots of praying tonight.
1. I don't know about the No contact Until Retro thing... it really doesn't send the right message... He will just nod through retro knowing he call call her once Retro is over... what's the point?
When confronting you always need to be armed with reality and consequences to fire at him if he gives you grief. If you confront and have no consequences to fire then you are going into battle unarmed.
And yes, exposure is a consequence, as is child support payments, alimony payments, public humiliation in general, lawyers fees.
Marital assets should be first allotted to the family home and any children it supports... including education plans for children. Whatever "fun money" is left over should be divided between you.. in my opinion. And the person that wants to leave the marriage, leaves the family and the home behind.
3. Try to expose to OWH in person since emails and phone messages may be intercepted.
4. Don't ask WS's friends to exclude her until you two are divorced... If one of my friends was cheating on his wife I would tell him if he walks out on his family, his children, and his wife I don't want to have ANYTHING to do with the woman that prompted that escape... EVER... not just while its happening, but EVER. Her destroying a marriage isn't any more legitimate after his divorce, she's still the homewrecker even after papers are signed... Its your play here, but often its best to just ask them to supoprt your marriage and respect for you and your children indefinitely... Him befriending OW after divorce is still disrespectful to you.
5. Locks are VERY easy to change, OR you can call a locksmith to install them... you can buy them at most hardware stores and have keys made for them right there. If there is more than one door you can buy locks that both match the same key.
My advice is to pay someone to install them to save you some stress.. if you like this sorta stuff watch him do it so you learn anyhow.
You will need to observe the laws in your state regarding changing of locks.. most locksmiths wont change locks on a home unless you are the owner... They don't want to get involved in domestic disputes...
But its very easy to change a lock... my wife did all three on our home when we bought five years ago... she did them all inside of a couple of hours... and the same key fit all three locks too... she hadn't done it before but she figured it out pretty quick.
If you are curious, get a screwdriver and remove the one that's there... take a look at it and how it fits into the socket and then put it back in... make sure you buy a new lock that is the same design so you don't have to do any cutting or drilling to fit a different shape lock. And of course, secure the key with someone ELSE.. don't keep it in YOUR home... put it at your parents place or somewhere that he won't dare go to ask for it.
And dont' forget you can always turn to your support team to help you do the locks... FIL or whomever ... its not that you can't do it.. you just have a lot on your mind and you need time free to plan.. anyone of your support team can do the locks if you feel they are qualified.
