Is this piecing?

[flowmom]

(((H4L))) It sounds like you're really hurting.

Please stop beating yourself up. This is not your fault and your reactions are human ones. You did not create this situation...your H did. You're doing the best that you can and beating yourself up about not reacting perfectly helps no one. It's been an emotional roller coaster lately and you're emotionally burned out. Self care means disenganging, getting support and being kind to yourself.

H4L, please listen to OP, Kalni and rr...they are giving you really good advice about how to deal with the sitch.

[Butterfly1]

I have to do the space thing. I'm so ashamed at how I messed this up. All I can do is do better today.

[flowmom]

You didn't mess this up H4L. That is toxic stuff talking. You're not a DB robot, you are a mother and wife who is in a lot of pain. Talk back to the shame, say what you know to be true which is that you have brought a lot of love, self-responsbility and sheer effort to making this work.

[Freckle6]

Honey, you didn't mess this up! Stop saying that because it's not true. He tells you he has a "girlfriend" and you're blaming last night's implosion on you?! That and the custody stuff all at once?! I'd consider you a success if you weren't the lead breaking news story on the 11 o'clock news last night after those bombs.

Cry it all out. We all know how much this hurts so you are not alone. ((Hope))

[rr22]

Freckles6: I'd consider you a success if you weren't the lead breaking news story on the 11 o'clock news last night after those bombs.


LOL!

[alice444]

OK, I made all the mistakes tonight. This all started by H wanting to talk custody issues. Thinking of sending this email to H what do you think?

I think that, as much as you are 100% justified in everything you wrote and that it feels good to write it, that this is one of those that you write here and for yourself, not to him. I've been the author of many of those myself and ended up glad, either that I never sent them at all, or I waited, did some thinking and heavy editing and brought it up in a calmer, more objective way. It's so hard, but I think you'll be glad you did. You are hurting badly right now and sometimes when we are, we don't word things the way we wish we had later, etc.

I was up crying for hours, unable to self soothe. I knew this was wrong. I knew he wouldn’t be there for me and I had to pull it together. I didn’t. I went in at 3am big mistake. I gently asked,
Mr. Hope,? (HMMM?) Can I ask you something? (Hmmmm) are you listening?(Hmmmmm) Is that a yes? (nods yes with HMMM)
ME: I’m sorry about calling my dad but you hurt me so much I needed support . Cam I please have an apology or a hug or some nice words.
H:I can’t believe you’re [censored] doing this. Go away. I can’t believe you. This is [censored] bullshirt.
I can’t believe this shirt. I hope you rot. I’m not rewarding this shirt. I would have given you a hug if you hadn’t pulled this shirt. Maybe you’re recording this and trying to trick me.

(((Hope))) I wish you had my number and could've called me. See my offer in the alt to come here. It's a serious one. Oh, this is the thing I'm afraid of happening to me- that I try to reach out to my H/best friend and he slaps me down like yours did. That is so awful and hard, I just want to curl up with you and hold you for awhile. HE is a jerk and is treating you like "shirt". I'm sorry, I'm sure he has redeeming qualities or you wouldn't have been with him, but it's what I say about my H: he may be a good guy, but he is behaving badly. You do not deserve to be talked to like that or called ANY name. Name calling is NEVER justified, ever. And he's full of it, attacking you when he's the one who has behaved badly- GF, WTF. you should be the one justified in calling him names now (I'm not recommending that, just saying he is trying to blame you when he is the badly-behaving one. Why do we all get sucked into this, me included??)

I don’t want him mad at me and blaming me. I don’t believe this is all my fault. I know I had my part in it. But I was hurt too and wantd an apology, I wanted to be made up to. In his mind, I’m totally at fault and deserve to be punished.

Ok, you are feeling how I've been feeling- and why the F do we care if they're mad at us? If your best friend relayed this convo to you and said her H did all this, would you advise her to be careful so he didn't get mad at her? No. Ok, I doubt he's going to give you anything you want and hope for right now. You need to seek solace and comfort elsewhere, with yourself, your family and your friends. It is NOT all your fault. The most fault that could lie with you is 50% and I'm not even convinced of that. Remember, with 2 people, that is the most you can try to own, ever. Do you see how wrong it is for him to blame you- how is it your fault if he chose to go and date someone? Tell me how you are to blame for that. Even if you did something that made him feel like he was justified, YOU didn't do it. He did. It's like my H hearing me say "I don't want a D", then blaming me that he is choosing to go down that path. Ludicrous.

I"m so confused. His anger may be justified. H certainly feels it is and I can only validate this. But I can't understand how he feels this justifies talking to me like that. He kept going on about how I talk to my friends and get one-sided opinions, and so here I fear I"m doing it again. But this is that last straw. I can't imagine how he can justify all this in his mind. I know I have lied to him in the past. But that is in the past. If I'm researching how to have custody because I don't think he's fit to have 50% I don't expect him to feel anything but angry about that. I know I made that call without his consent.

Ok, you're doing what you need to do to protect you and S. You didn't take any underhanded action behind his back, you are gathering information, which is ok. NOTHING you have done justifies him talking to you, his W and the mother of his S, like that. I can only say he is possessed like all of our S's are and that's how he justifies all this. They make up things, sit and stew in their fantasies, until it all bubbles over and suddenly they're the wronged party. It eases their guilt to blame us- I and you need to keep reminding ourselves of that, ok?

But does that justify how he talks to me? Am I just crying wolf?

NO, IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY HOW HE TALKS TO YOU.

The only method I know, now that he blames me and justifies the way he blows up at me, is to go dark. I cannot allow myself to be treated this way, even if I"ve made mistakes. Even if I'm to blame. Even if his anger is justified.

And I KNOW he is going to use this night against me as "proof" of why he can't visit S at my house any longer.

I know little about going dark but I think you need to do whatever you need to do right now to protect and heal yourself. If it's space or going dark, I say do it. You're right, you cannot allow yourself to be treated this way- it's wrong, damaging to your self-esteem, and hurts your S indirectly, whether he overhears it or not (btw, when you're more centered, I recommend establishing a rule with H of no speaking like this when your S is anywhere nearby. This is very damaging to him).

Ok, so if he won't visit S at your house any longer- believe me, I know how hard you want to hang on and seeing him those few times is your assured way of seeing him still- but, right now, this means that if he can't see you, he can't insult you face to face like he did last night, or make you cry with his anger. If he tries to do it over the phone, you don't have to answer or you can hang up. But feeling cornered in your own house is no good - that's your safe place, a space you need to feel ok. It may be that when the dust settles a bit, that you can- if you want to- still see H but maybe at a neutral spot so he can't pollute your safe space. I find it interesting and bewildering that he still slept over last night. I think he is trying to hurt you as much as possible, and it makes him feel powerful to do so and to do it in your own house, and then invade it by not leaving. Could be all unconscious, but I think that's part of it.

How are you faring on finding an IC? You really need a safe place and person to talk to face to face right now.

[LauraOh]

H4L, I'm surprised nobody has come on here and told you to PROTECT yourself from his vitriolic outbursts.

(I haven't read all ?83? pages, so if this has been said, sorry.

When he is cursing (2 HOURS??) LEAVE the house. Tell him calmly that you cannot hear him when he is speaking this way, you ARE interested in his POV, but you can't tolerate this kind of communication. You only have to leave for 15-30 minutes. It has been working on my H, who has a similar, nasty temperment at times.

And here--this will save you some $$ (I had to learn it while paying $125 in counseling)--don't have conversations after 9 at night. I am barely conscious at that hour and my son is now 14!

Your husband knows your buttons--he is pushing them all to JUSTIFY why he is doing what he is doing. You must protect yourself. I know it's hard--I now leave a pair of shoes by the door with the dog's leash. More times I'm out the door than not. But I WILL NOT let him (or the next one--whichever) speak to me this way. It's tough--they will SUCK YOU IN. The girlfried thing may not be true but he got you sucked in anyway. I expect ALL sorts of stuff to come out of my H's mouth now--he uses all kinds of nonsense to get me to stay and listen to what a crappy person I am. They are SOOOO good at this--you have to be smart!!

Good luck,
Laura

Also, another piece of advise that has done me a world of good--you do not have to "answer" to anything immediately. Have a few things to say like "that is interesting--I'll get back to you on it, etc. Custody issues? At that hour?? You don't have to give any quick answers--take your time, think about things, and then get back to him!

[alice444]

H4L, I'm surprised nobody has come on here and told you to PROTECT yourself from his vitriolic outbursts. [...]
Also, another piece of advise that has done me a world of good--you do not have to "answer" to anything immediately. Have a few things to say like "that is interesting--I'll get back to you on it, etc. Custody issues? At that hour?? You don't have to give any quick answers--take your time, think about things, and then get back to him!

I love all of Laura's advice, but particularly the last piece. I need to remember this myself- it's awful and anxious to get hit with a topic you're not prepared for - this is a good way to buy time.

Hope, please check in when you can to let us know how you're doing--

[LauraOh]

Ok, I just got through 5-6 pages when you first got to piecing.

I'm suprised how similar our situations are. I married at 32. Had TONS of "life" before marrying, married a younger guy--very driven, ambitious, perfectionist. He works a TON. We had a son (who is now 14). I had GAL already down as I was left for HOURS on my own while he worked 14 hour shifts.

9 years into the marriage, I got the ILYNILY speach. My son was 8 at the time. I was SO devastated. My biggest fear has always been being "homeless" (I think it means a fear of abandonment) and having my husband find someone else and start a new family.

I found this site and posted a lot. My husband never left the home, but was out with a buddy I detest all the time. I did like the one poster said--got new sexy clothes, lost the "frumpy housewife" thing, made a TON of changes, found out his LL and mine (and now it's almost a hobby--I know all my friend's LLs.lol)

Was successful at getting him back. But I had to do the OPPOSITE of GAL--I had to stay by his side!! Call him regularly (I never did that) and did Acts of Service (I ask him each day "what can I do for you today dear.lol". Back then it was "nothing", then slowly some small errands, then if he was stressed there were LOTS of things to do each day, and if not, there were less things.

We had some super good years after the first "bomb" one (yes, it took the full 9 months before I felt like we were on the right path--we'd been married 9 years at that point)

A year ago we started a huge remodeling project. His Acts of Service went balistic. And his verbal abuse, which had been a huge problem since 3 months after being married, raised its ugly head again (it got Sooooo much better for the 4 years or so after the bomb).

I never did put up boundaries, and now I'm doing it. Because of this site, I am much more "at peace" with this relationship and where it is going--even if it ends in divorce. I am not afraid of "homelessness", although him starting a new family IS a huge fear right now (the friend I detest dumped his wife and 14 year old daughter and now has 2 babies by the 12 22 year old wife (the guy is 46)My husband wanted more kids, but because of his neglect and being gone all the time, it was hard enough to raise my one son (practically) alone.

I see now so much more than before--and after lot of expensive counseling am learning how to set boundaries.

One thing I always try to remember, is my husband usually remembers NOTHING of what he said to me in anger. I have acted on the things he's said in the heat of the moment and later he is mad I did something hasty! And he "sucks me in" by mentioning a "fear" or starting out reasonable, and then "switching". I have to learn not to let myself get sucked in!!

I know I have a lot of work to do before he will believe me. I have several "scripts" to use when he starts, and then will literally walk out the door. And I face the fact that he just may not want a "stronger woman type". But I can't take it any more--my LL being words, it devastates me.

Since I've been working on this, I find it SO much easier to self-sooth! I come back in a half hour or so, after being out with my dogs, and I great him happily and his mood has usually changed. Sometimes he's having a bit of a sulk, but that's OK! Better than angry!

Another thing I have never done, and just in the past 2 months have started doing, is thanking my husband for working so hard (I totally have resented his work, so that felt like a HUGE lie at first). I do totally appreciate aspects of it--we haven't been affected by the economy at all, have a rental property I would live in if he does decide to leave, etc. It was so weird to say it at first, but like other "habits", it's getting easier and easier.

Good luck, hang in there,

LauraO

[LauraOh]

Oh, I wanted to mention one more thing. My husband would say the absolute worst things (ILYNIL, etc) in a quiet way. TOTALLY out of character for him. It was chilling.

Which makes me doubt the girlfriend stuff.

LauraO