how do i keep my hope alive?

[trytryagain]

OTM, i do feel a lot of failure. i know this is not my fault or his fault anyway, but i certainly feel like i've failed at keeping a marriage together...we haven't even been married 2 and a half years yet!! i'm also feeling an enormous sense of loss right now, over the future plans we had, the family i wanted with him...compounded with the extreme aching of missing him, his presence, our daily lives together. it all adds up to just about the most painful hurt i've ever experienced in my life.

i try to let my rational brain in on this from time to time, and remember there were so many things that didn't work, so many things that made me unhappy...my H has accepted that while we love and care about each other, we just can't make it work. i'm not there yet, but i am certainly not glorifying our relationship or forgetting all the hard times and hurt we went through.

[Onthemountaintop]

I don't know if this is going to help, but I hope it does...

I knew my M was a failure from the 3rd week. But, I kept up smiles, dinners, and as passionate sex as I could. I prayed.

Now, 10 1/2 yrs later, my screw-ups that were happening before and until now, and to be fair hers as well, have got me here.

I'm not sorry that I tried. I can forgive myself for my immature and ADHD failures combined. But I know I tried.

I don't know if my M will survive today. I can promise you though, the failures you feel are nothing compared to mine. If things work out, you'll be proud.

If they don't, at least be proud of the fact that he and you did what you could to solve things after 5 yrs, not 11. The feeling of failure hurts so, so much more when kids are affected as well as a W.

Let it go. Gnosis posted the following. I'm NOT sure if you should detatch now, but if you want to detatch more, it is something to conside.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Detachment is hard. It's easy to say, "Hey man, just erase the past decade of your life and move forward..." and that is bullshirt. Because during that period you had some really good times. You don't want to erase those because it would mean your life was meaningless -- and if you have children, it also erases the kids.

Unfortunately, it takes time. In the beginning we fall into the "attachment trap" subconsciously and need people to point it out to us. This continues until we become consciously aware of it, then we can consciously work on detaching until it becomes second nature.

The worst thing about the situation we find ourselves in is the extent of destruction that has been caused. We constantly dwell on it. When we are "in the moment", we can't see the forest for the trees, and we sink into depression. The depression happens because we are completely powerless to do anything about the situation. Even though we "know" we'll get through it, it still sucks.

I hate the phrases, "It needs time" , "It will pass with time". Yes, those terms are true. And the pain and hurt DOES subside with time. But what can we do to accelerate it? There is nothing we can do to make time go faster or slower.

There is ONE thing we CAN do however...

The "trick" is to minimize your mental activity on the situation for now. For now, don't think back on the good times or the crap that is going on. All we can do is GAL and get busy...and find things we enjoy doing. Firstly to distract ourselves from the crap that is going on, then, when we do it long enough, it becomes a habit. We become so occupied that we "forget" the fiasco at home.

That's when our mindset starts changing... we find ourselves looking forward to enjoying ourselves, improving ourselves... FOR ourselves. And we discover how our happiness depends on ourselves. With our improved self-esteem, confidence we find that when we do look back, we now have the mental strength to cope with what seemed insurmountable at first.

[trytryagain]

i probably do need to detach a little more, and come to grips with the fact that it is NOT my H that makes me happy. i can do happy all by myself. every day has its ups and downs and i have my moments of feeling utter and complete loss and then i have my moments of breathing a sigh of relief that my M isn't carrying on the way it was a few months ago.

H is asking if we can "wrap up" the agreement by april 15. i don't even think you need to file the thing if we plan to D "uncontested" but i'll need to consult with a L on that. to go from thinking about counseling in early march to wrapping up a separation agreement by mid april just seems CRAZY to me. so that's what i'm telling myself right now. that he's just crazy.

in my response i told him i'd have a L look over it and i'd get back to him but that i was at odds because signing it meant that i voluntarily entered into the agreement and the D, and that's not how i feel at all. he still can't file for D until august (6 months after he moved out), but once the separation agreement itself has been filed, i think that's going to be the nail on the coffin for him.

i keep asking myself why i want to be married to someone who CONTINUALLY questions his commitment to me and to us. why i want to force this man into counseling or reconciling when he's the one who left to begin with. why i want to be with a man who is TELLING me that he can't see us together for the rest of our lives. is it just comfortable? am i just afraid of the change this will bring? do i really think we could make this work or do i tell myself that because i am so scared of letting him go? do i just want to posses him and be the only one he'll ever love? am i just being arrogant and thinking that he'll never find another woman like me? why do i want to be married to someone who has wanted out TWICE in 2 years? the answer can't just be because i love him. i've loved people before. i know i am capable of loving again.

maybe the vows meant something to me. maybe the whispered promises during our first dance were real to me. maybe i'm not realistically remembering my M for what it really was. i don't know. but i'm having a very very hard time just letting go. i don't want to struggle against this so hard, i don't want to resist so much, because i only get more and more tangled that way. certainly my H is only human and we are all entitled to our mistakes and god knows i make my fair share of them, but this is a man who has walked away from me 4 times in 5 years. what is it exactly that i'm holding on to? sometimes i think i was only holding on to an illusion to begin with...

[Onthemountaintop]

so that's what i'm telling myself right now. that he's just crazy.

I think he may be - you seem like a very caring person who would've been able to help him become a better man.

I was wondering if you could tell him that you'll do it the month of the D, if there is one. When you talk to your L, maybe ask him if you can just ignore it until then - if YOU want to, that is. I think you're right, any legal agreement is like saying game over. Still, no one can ever gaurantee anyone else's behaviour.

why i want to force this man into counseling or reconciling when he's the one who left to begin with.

I'm not sure if I can imagine being with my wife till death just yet. But I am hopeful and trying. Love sure makes a huge difference. As you've said, forcing someone isn't probably that effective, but again, each person is different.

If you are sure you want to try still, the trade of agreement for counselling is a reasonable one. In counselling, you can find out some details of what is really going on that is separating the two of you. He hasn't said why, just forgiveness. Of course, he could stonewall, but if he still loves you and you ask through that love and explain it is for a sense of closure, I would wonder if he would agree.

Maybe in a month he's going to change his mind, but for me, separation in our house made me feel separate. Trying to fully reattach is harder now - I get flashbacks and memories of dreams I had invented to make a D seem good. More time might only make it harder.

You had some excellent questions about your motivations for yourself. Those seem very important to answer before you decide anything. Maybe it was an illusion. But I doubt it. You seem to have many good memories. You have the right to ask for a clear explanation. That can be over time, in peices, or through some kind of MC or whatever. He has the right to refuse, but you can ask guilt free. Think of it like a job - wouldn't you ask?

[trytryagain]

i don't know, OTM...i honestly think he could be in some kind of mental "episode" right now, because it wouldn't be the first time...i can only reach out to him so far, and from there it's up to him to take my hand. but i've tried to be patient and supportive and kind to him - no doubt i've had my moments and made mistakes along the way - but i feel he's retreated so far into his hole of despair that even i can't reach in and get him out.

i need to talk to a L first and find out when or if we would need to file an agreement prior to filing for divorce. if we don't need to file it prior to filing for D, i might ask him if we can just follow the agreement as it states on the document, but not necessarily sign anything until he wants to file for D.

i still really don't know if i said, i'll sign if you go to X amount of counseling sessions with me first for the sake of closure, that he'd be open to that. i've already asked him why we can't try at least one session, since we have to wait another 4 months to file anyway...to me, that's 4 months where we could at least put a toe in the water and see how it feels.

not everything in our M was an illusion...but i think some of it was for sure. i think back on how many things i did over the last year with my friends or my sister because my H was working or just wasn't interested in the event or thing i wanted to do. right now, at least, i think my H feels like he's given me a clear explanation...he's thought and thought and feels like he can no longer see us together for the rest of our lives. it's weird because that's what he was saying to me when he first wanted to separate back in january...then a few weeks to a month later it was, i'm not sure if this is what i want...what would you think about counseling? it was phone calls until 1 i the morning or him coming over in a snow storm. now he's back to "we just can't make this work," and i think he's honestly convinced himself that D is the only way to stop the cycle of us breaking up and getting back together.

i also don't know if i like his new IC. he seems to like her, but he said she doesn't give much attention to his ADHD, and i fear that she may have told him that a clean break was the only way for him to start fresh...

[Onthemountaintop]

If you did work things out, would your next years be like last year? If you are sure they would - remembering that you can never be 100% sure, then maybe it wasn't a great M.

If you think that the more aware and independent you would find ways to live as married married people instead of single married people, then your H is wrong about thinking your marriage would never be happy.

I remember you mentioning that you don't like to work the room with your H. Maybe if you are to stay M, you would need to change that aspect of your shyness. Would you be able and want to do those kinds of things?

[Onthemountaintop]

Perspective on IC:

I went to mine last night and as has happened before, the component of sexual attraction came up. I made it clear that while I am satisfied with my Ws body, there are parts that I find 'ugly'. It sounds awful I would talk that way, but in IC and here I will spill it all as it is.

My IC (who was our MC) reminded me that if I'm satisfied, stay. Otherwise, things won't be better in that area.

She also mentioned another thing. Changing her example to match your H: An IC will respond to things they hear, not to the facts. If your H says, "I feel so alone with my W when we're out", the IC has a lot to ask about your shyness (etc) and how your H can control those feelings. If he said, "I hate being out with her", the IC might think your R is the problem.

If your H's IC isn't getting to the root of problems, it would make things worse. That is why MC can be better - you are in the picture and the converstations can lead to a better understanding of your dynamics. My IC was my MC, so she is aware of my W and our married issues.

[trytryagain]

well, from what my H has told me, he and his IC are making some "deep digs" into the root of his behavior, and i don't even know how much they talk about our M...i think their focus is on my H's behavior patterns and how he got to be that way. for me, i'm not interested in how i got to be this way. i already know. i'm interested in solutions and actions and moving forward. but for some people i know that in order to move forward, they have to dig into and uncover some things about their past.

i don't think my H would ever say he felt "alone" when we were out together. i am not shy, but i'm not an extrovert like my H is. i stick to talking to people that i know, and i'm not one to walk up to a stranger and strike up a conversation. my H is. i've never been bothered by his ability to work the room while i sit with a friend and chat. what bothers me is when i feel like he's so busy working the room that he forgets that i'm even there. and in any case, his extroverted nature is not a dealbreaker for me. it's one of the things that attracted me to him. his presence fills a room.

i think his IC, though, may have him thinking that he's so f'd up in the head that there's no way he can work on himself and on our M at the same time. i have no way of knowing that for sure, but...we met up a few times in february when he started seeing her and after one particularly hopeful dinner on valentine's day, he came back a few days later and said his IC told him we shouldn't be rushing anything. not that we were, but...i just wish i could be a fly on the wall in their sessions.

if we both committed to making changes and growing up and learning from our mistakes TOGETHER, then i think if we were able to work things out, i could let the fear go and we could with time and piecing, be very happy again. i just don't know if my H will get to that point before he serves me with D papers.

[FindingMyVoice]

i keep asking myself why i want to be married to someone who CONTINUALLY questions his commitment to me and to us. why i want to force this man into counseling or reconciling when he's the one who left to begin with. why i want to be with a man who is TELLING me that he can't see us together for the rest of our lives. is it just comfortable? am i just afraid of the change this will bring? do i really think we could make this work or do i tell myself that because i am so scared of letting him go?

These are really insightful questions you're asking yourself. Have you done any more work around these questions since you wrote them here? Do you journal or meditate? Sometimes the only way I can find answers to the questions I ask myself is to write. I think you access a different level of your thoughts and emotions with a pen in hand. Sorry I'm not that familiar with your sitch yet, but the depth of pain it sounds like there are in those questions just made me wonder.

but i'm having a very very hard time just letting go.

I'm so sorry you're going through such a tough time; allow yourself to feel what you need to feel - you're grieving right now.

but this is a man who has walked away from me 4 times in 5 years.

How has that felt?? If it were me I would have been angry, in addition to the sad. Hang in there TTA.

[Wholeagain]

((( TTA )))

Can you set a deadline for yourself how long you are willing to wait? Do you know what kind of marriage you will be happy with? Follow your plan until the deadline, just do it.

Whatever you do, don't sign anything regarding separation/ asset division when not level-headed. I would not be surprised if your H thinks he can get away with being unreasonable because you don't want to argue and want to reconcile.