Looking for help with WAW

[idontunderstand]

Burt is right, we are better people now after the bomb was dropped. It's a damn shame that it took something like this happening, but, there it is.

We are all here to save our marriage, and we expect our spouses to see we have changed now that we "get it." I have trouble with patience all the time! That is my mantra, patience, patience, patience. Now if I could make myself listen to myself, myself would be better off!

Hopefully, with time, they will see the changes are for us, not just to win them back. We can't set a time table. I wish I could. Hang in there, you can do this. We can do this. What's the option, give up? NO!

[dburt]

Wife, when she was wallowing about what to do (whether to try or not) asked if she should give me a 6 month trial period, I told her not to give me any timetable, because when I reach that time then I could go back to how I use to be, if I ever slip back at anytime, then the failure will be on me and not her.

Burt

[james217]

Thanks idontunderstand. Depression sucks doesn't it? My W told me the same things, that I needed to see my doctor, go to C, etc. I thought the same things as you. I didn't need that, I was fine. Well, my W was right again...damn. The thing that frustates me is that I have told my W that my depression was a big reason for my actions, or lack of in my case. If she suffered from depression and the roles were reversed, I would give her a second chance knowing that the depression could have contributed to the behavior.

omg dude I said the exact same freaking thing. due to my depression it affected my actions mood and behaviour.

I didn't want to to go counseling and whatnot. Now im doing it and I agree I did need it because alot of stuff has happened to me that I realize I'm still trying to deal with and i'm very angry about.

[mza8]

Update. Went to the gym last night and saw my W there. She gave me a quick wave. I gave a quick wave back and walked the other way. She worked out for a while and left. I worked out on the other side of the gym so as not to make her feel that I was invading her space. Neither one of us left early because the other was there.

We finally spoke today about the house. She asked when were we going to put it for sale. I told her that I have been working to fix it up and have more work to do. She wanted to know when I would be finished. I told her that I would not commit to a specific date because I couldn't give her an honest answer. I gave her a list of the things that need to be finished on the house and asked if she would be willing to help with any of it. She said no, that she wouldn't paint, wouldn't help with the yard work and she wouldn't clean the house. Unbelievable. I asked her why she was unwilling to help and her response was that she didn't think doing any of those things were necessary to put the house for sale. Um, ok. I tried my hardest to validate her. I did ok but I did say that I disagreed with her and said that these things do need to be done to sell the house and get the price we talked about. Of course, she disagrees. I'm a realtor and she is going to argue that point with me. Whew! I told her that we obviously disagree and that all I can say is that I will keep working as fast as I can to finish the house and will let her know when it's ready. She kept telling me that she wanted to sell it 6 months ago. We debated about that for a bit. I reminded her of a couple of things during that time that made it confusing to me of her intentions with the house. Of course she stood firm on her version of the events. I dropped it at that point. I told her that I didn't think this conversation was being very productive at this point and that we should talk another time. She was quiet for a bit, sort of surprised that I was getting off of the phone, then said ok. I had to ask her another question so the conversation lasted a few more minutes.

Towards the end of the conversation I did mention to her that I know she moved back into her parent's house after she told me she was still at her sister's house. She tried to explain to me that it was a temporary situation. I stopped her and said it's none of my business but that she could have been honest with me as I am being honest with her. I told her that she doesn't owe me any explanation and I thought it was good she was living with her parent's. I said she shouldn't have to feel like she has to rush to find a place to live and she can take time to search for her own place. Anyway, I then tried to get back on the subject and said that we can talk later about the house. It was so hard not to get upset with her. I wouldn't say I got upset but I was very frustrated with her. I'm sure some of it showed. I just couldn't believe that she was unwilling to do anything to help with the house. It is her house too. I didn't even need to be there if she would help. She could do her work when I'm not there. Ughh...so frustrating.

I forgot to ask her an important question about the house and I called her back a few minutes later and left her a voice mail. She called me back a few minutes after that. I asked her my quesiton with something else that needed to be done with the house and she offered to take care of it. She also said she would take care of planting flowers around the house too. So that was a bit better. I apologized to her for bringing up that she moved into her parent's house. I don't think it made me weak but I thought it was the right thing to do. She said it wasn't a problem and that she is trying to be honest with me too. She said it gives her time to look for an apartment. I told her again that she didn't owe me any explanation and that I shouldn't have backed her into a corner. Then I asked her if she was willing to keep me on her health insurance. She scheduled to take me off of her health insurance the end of this month. She said that she could now and gave several reasons why. I asked her to clarify some of the reasons so I could better understand. She once offered to keep me on if I was willing to pay for my end. I had told her that I would. She told me tonight that she wasn't sure if I would have really paid her or not. She said because I wasn't willing to sign any separation agreement a couple of months ago, that she wasn't sure what I would do.

Then she said something very interesting to me. She told me that she doesn't know which mza8 she sees from one week to the next. Sometimes she sees the consistent mza8 and sometimes not. I asked her to please elaborate on that because I think I have been consistent lately. She said that I have "varied" back and forth for the past couple of months but she then admitted that she has seen a consistent mza8 for the past couple of weeks. Wow, I couldn't believe she said that. She gave me something positive. She must be watching after all. Question is if my continued consistency will hopefully pay off in the end or this is her just throwing me a bone. I'm sort of shocked right now. I cannot believe she finally admitted that she has seen my consistency for the past two weeks. We did not go into any R talk at all. She then wanted to say that she was very sorry about the passing of my friend last week. We talked about the viewing and about my friend for a bit. She seemed genuinely into the conversation. This second phone call tonight was much, much better than the first. Perhaps we were both on our guard during the first phone call. It was almost like we both took a deep breath before the second phone call and relaxed. My W didn't mention anything about D. Like I said, we didn't talk about the M at all but at least I know she's watching. If she's watching then hopefully that means she's watching for a reason.

I almost screwed up on the first phone call...almost. I did mess up on a few things but nothing major, I don't think. It's amazing how in my mind I know how I need to act when talking with her but once you get into the conversation it can be damn hard not to allow emotions to influence your actions. I definitely see how ending a conversation early, if things get emotional, is the right thing to do. We ended the conversation friendly (much better than the first call ended) and said we would talk again in a couple of days for the house update. We also talked about our taxes and it appears that she wants to file jointly which is something she didn't want to do before. We talked about dropping off our information to our accountant.

Wow, this stuff can really drive you crazy if you let it. All in all I think it was a pretty good conversation. At times, I so much want to get to the next step with W and talk about our M and work on it together. In a way maybe we are both working on it now by working on ourselves.

[FormelyknownasF]

Thank you for your comment on my thread.
You seem to be doing very good yourself.
My prayers and thoughts are with you.

F

[gr8 day 2B alive]

mza8,

Nice interaction with W last night. I particularly like what you said here: I stopped her and said it's none of my business but that she could have been honest with me as I am being honest with her. I told her that she doesn't owe me any explanation and I thought it was good she was living with her parent's.

My W felt as if I was controlling her. Two weeks ago she asked if she could drop the kids off early on Saturday b/c she had plans to go out to the spa with our neighbor, I told her thatshe didn't have to tell me where she was going b/c it was none of my business. I think this my have scored a point for me, maybe.

Also her tellng you she has seen changes is a huge plus!
Thank her for noticing and let her know you feel great aboout them.

Keep it up, maybe the spring weather is starting to warm the WAW's hearts.

[mza8]

Hi Gr8.

Thanks for checking in. I think that overall it was a good interaction with W last night. It's so tough to tell sometimes and I try very hard not to read anything into it or have any expectations. After the phone call I decided to go to the gym to get some exercise and not obsess about the conversation. This is a 180 for myself as in the past I probably would have stayed in and thought about the conversation all night. Nice to get the exercise. My W was also at the gym last night. She must have gone right up after the call too. I didn't see her, just saw her car in the parking lot. I went in and worked out in a more remote section of the gym so I wouldn't bump into her. Again, I don't want her to think I'm bothering her. I did enjoy the exercising.

Later last evening I got to thinking about the conversation a bit. It started to bother me that she would not keep me on her health insurance. I'm paying for the car payment and car insurance (car insurance for both of us). So here I am thinking how I'm paying for these things and she can't keep me on her health insurance. That bothers me. I should be able to get my own health insurance soon and I told my W that I am not asking to sponge off of her for the insurance, I would pay for my half. She claimed it was too late and she already cancelled it for the end of the month. I could have gone and reminded her last night that I am paying for the car and car insurance but I didn't. I didn't want to stoop to that level of tit for tat. A few months ago my W told me that if I didn't want to pay for the car that was fine and we could either sell it or give it back to the bank. Um, what? She said something similar about the house back many months ago that we could sell it or let it go into foreclosure. Wow, just can't understand that thinking at all. Granted she said those things a month or two after she left so she was really all over the place then. She's more realistic about things now so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt now. Anyway, that brings me back to the whole health insurance issue. It does bother me. Not so much because I may be without it for 30-60 days, but that she could do that to me.

The health insurane issue is one of the reasons I question if her telling me last night that she sees a change and a more consistent mza8 for the past couple of weeks is a positive thing or not. Logic tells me that if she has seen this consistent change for the past two weeks and admitted this to me, why could she not act like a human being with a heart and keep me on the health insurance for a bit longer until mine kicks in? Seems like a very selfish and immature act on her part. I hear what she told me last night about her not knowing which mza8 she was seeing for the past couple of months and that made her wonder if she could trust me to pay her for the health insurance. I can see that but honestly, for me, there's the right thing to do here and in my opinion she's not doing it. Ok, enough. I've beaten the health insuracne issue to death.

I left her a voice mail this morning giving her the infornmation about the house I promised her last night. I also told her that if she wanted to look into the possibility of checking with her benefits dept. to see if she could add me back to her health insurance, that I would appreciate it. I didn't pressure her, just made a brief comment about it. That will be the end of that issue with me. If she does it, great, it not then that's ok too...don't really have a choice anyway.

By far, the most significant thing from the conversation last night was her telling me she saw a consistent mza8 for the past couple of weeks. That's sort of the other thing that bothers me a bit though. I was never a bad person with major issues...always good hearted, funny and caring. Like anyone else, I had/have some things I need to work on. However, I feel like I am being judged in a way...that my W gets to be the judge and determine if/when she will work on the M. I'm making huge efforts and I ask myself, what is she doing to improve herself? Why does she feel that she gets to now control this sitch? I think I know the answers to those questions already but it does bother me at times. I did thank her last night for noticing my consistent changes. I didn't tell her that I'm trying or anything like that because that would have sounded weak and needy. Just said a simply thank for for noticing.

Anyway, the goal I made with my DB coach was to build on the positive/friendly interaction with W for now and be observant of any signs from her that she notices my changes. I guess last night I got both. Need to remind myself sometimes that this is a good thing. Keep it going.

Gr8, good to hear some of the positive things happening for you too. I'll continue to keep up with your sitch. Good luck to both of us!

[gr8 day 2B alive]

I don't know what to think about the Insurance thing.
Is she paying anything to have you on her policy?
I am currently on my W policy and she pays a small amount to have a family plan. I was able to negotiate at my work to drop my family plan in order to receive more money.

Early on My W said I could stay on in until I can't.(Meaning once we are D she need to take me off).
I pay car and life insurance for the both of us.

What could her reasoning for taking you off? Does she want to detach from you totally? If so she should step up and take responsibility for the items you pay for her.IMO

Hear I go again mind reading and it's your W.

If she did cancel your policy shouldn't you receive a letter in the mail? You can always call for yourself too.

Another item is:
I had/have some things I need to work on. However, I feel like I am being judged in a way...that my W gets to be the judge and determine if/when she will work on the M. I'm making huge efforts and I ask myself, what is she doing to improve herself? Why does she feel that she gets to now control this sitch?

I feel the same way but we have to accept that is the way it is. We are along for the ride with no control.

Our only say in it is how we take care of ourselves.

We want them to just to give us another chance now that we know the issues.
They were feeling the same as us before but we didn't hear them.

It will make us better.
Right now I think about my R everyday. EVERY day.

I feel if I am given another chance at it I will continue to think about every day. The difference is it will be a great R, one that will be strong.
I know you feel the same way.
We will get there a day soon.

[mza8]

Gr8, I think that would have been the fair thing to do by my W to keep me on until/if we D. At least until I have my own health insurance...which should be soon anyway. I even told her that I wasn't asking to remain on her policy for a long time, just a few months. The cost to have me on her policy is deducted from her paycheck. I want to pay for my half, no problem. I really have no idea why she is so bent on taking me off. You would think after being with someone for so long you would at least care enough about them to make sure they have health insurance until they can get their owm. Since I offered to pay for my half, I'm not sure what the problem is here. Maybe she wants to detach, who knows? She has us both mind reading.

I absolutely agree with you that if she should then pay her half of the things I pay for. When it's something she wants lately, she has a reason for it (in her mind) why it's a good idea. When it's something I want she gives me 20 reasons why I'm not making sense. She was never like this before, we would always discuss the issue and she (and I) would use good common sense to make a decision.

She kept telling me last night how she wanted to sell the house 6 months ago and I didn't. Well, I was trying to get a job to afford to stay in the house and she also left so it was a lot to deal with at the time. Not making excuses, just trying to keep things in perspective. Part of me thinks the big test with her right now is to see if I really agree to sell the house and sign with the realtor. I think this is what she is waiting to see before her and I can make any progress. I know I'm trying to read her mind with this but she seems like everything we talk about now is selling this house.


I don't want to sell it. I'm taking steps to try to be able to afford to keep it. I might even be movng back in there soon...just me. That's not going to make her happy at all. But what do you do in this situation? Agree to sell just to make her happy not knowing if selling or keeping it would make any difference in her wanting to work on our M? It's not like I can go to her and ask her if I agree to sell the house, would she want to work on M? So not being able to be that direct with her this puts me in a difficult situation.

I remember talking to her father early on after she left. He said that the house was a huge issue for my W. He said that I needed to sell the house asap. This is what my W wanted. He said if I wanted to make matters better with W then I needed to do this. I know she wants to sell. I know it would relax her. If I knew selling it would make a huge difference is saving this M, then yes, I would probably do it. However, not knowing if it would make a difference or not makes me feel that I don't want to lose a house that I am working hard to afford to keep. I've been trying to give myself time to put a lot of thought into this decision. I'm still not sure what to do.

I hear you, Gr8, about feeling the same way I do about being along for the ride. Talk about the tables being turned, I was the one in my M to take the lead with most everything. Now I feel that I have little to no say in any matters. Walking on eggshells to save the M. Just venting a bit. I want to make this work, I know it will take a lot of work, I know it won't be easy and I know it will take time. I am getting better with these changes and I'm happy that my W acknowledged this last night. Have a long way to go in this process. You know at this point I feel like I have a pretty handle on what I need to do on my end. I am so ready to get to the next step and talk with my W about what we both can do together to improve things. I'm ready to have open and honest discussions with her about any and all issues. let's get it out in the open and discuss it. I would like to get to this stage at some point.

Sorry for the long posts today. Just have a lot on my mind and trying to make the right decisions. By the way, I did call the health insurance company today and they said they still show me on the policy. I guess I'll find out tomorrow. They did say that I could be added back at any time. Different story than what W told me that she couldn't add me back until the next opt in period. I'll wait and she what happens tomorrow and then contact her if she does take me off and give her this info. Then if she still wants to drop me from her policy she'll have to come up with another excuse. Boy, the game playing gets old. Funny how adults can act like children on such matters.

[james217]

hey mza just checking on u dude. I think you're handling it pretty well man. how is the job going?

Keep your head up man. Stay strong.