New here but have been a voyeur

[pearlharbr]

You're the one who keeps allowing this to happen. You were advised to go dark and yet to continue the hours-long conversations. H is obviously not ready, willing and able to commit to the M and yet you are acting like he is. You are allowing him and his actions to dictate how you feel and how you act.

If continued involvement with OW is a dealbreaker then state your boundary and enforce it. "H, I will not live in an open marriage. Your continued involvement with OW is inappropriate and unacceptable. I cannot stop you from communicating with OW but I will not have a relationship with you while you are still involved with her." And then follow through.

[marriedCrazy]

In addition, you can expand what pearl has stated to include; "there are some additional steps that YOU (meaning H) must take before I can conclude that we are ready for MC. I (meaning lola)must have confidence that I'M ready to have you back in the house. MC will be a start. Right now, I do not feel confident that it's the right decision. When you have some IC started and continuing and we have MC started and continuing; then I can discuss the additional steps that will be needed to continue building my confidence in our M and my trust in you."

[CityGirl]

Cheaters lie. Period. Cheaters will do anything they can do to deflect their transgressions and make you the crazy one. Period.

Your H is not unique. No cheaters are.

If your H (or any spouse for that matter) was or currently is in an affair they lie and deflect.

If you placed a pile of gasoline soaked newspaper in your living room along with a bunch of tree branches would you be shocked when it went up in flames from the smallest spark? Probably not. On that note, don't be shocked your H is lying and deflecting.

Your H might be removed from OW due to the job situation but that doesn't necessarily mean he is removed from her totally. Affairs are powerful and lingering. Especially when they have a second option available to them. What should be urgent (dumping OW and putting all focus on the M) is not with a wayward spouse.

For months and months I got tied up with talks with my H that would go on for hours. It was abusive and I never should have participated. It was simply a way for him to purge his guilt yet keep on truckin' down the affair and divorce path. Don't put yourself in the same position I did unless you are certain it is only you and your H in the talks.

[lolawar]

You're the one who keeps allowing this to happen. You were advised to go dark and yet to continue the hours-long conversations. H is obviously not ready, willing and able to commit to the M and yet you are acting like he is. You are allowing him and his actions to dictate how you feel and how you act.

I am embarressed to admit...but you are absolutely right. I have gone dark..and then I allow him to suck me back in..or allow myself to be sucked back in. He responds to my darkness by pursuing or harrassing. When I haven't answered his calls, texts, or emails...he will bombard me with messages on whatever technology he hasn't tried...and of course I will give in by answering just to avoid his anger.

If continued involvement with OW is a dealbreaker then state your boundary and enforce it. "H, I will not live in an open marriage. Your continued involvement with OW is inappropriate and unacceptable. I cannot stop you from communicating with OW but I will not have a relationship with you while you are still involved with her." And then follow through.

This is a tough one. When I told him we were through if him and OW weren't done...he said he was ending it. I don't have any proof that he hasn't ended it...and the only proof that I have that he did end it...is the phone bill he sent me..emails that she has sent that he hasnt replied to..and text messages that she has sent that he hasnt responded to. He knows the boundary..I just cannot prove or disprove that he has crossed this boundary. We aren't living together..he is still working with OW (2 more weeks)...I have no clue what he is doing..except for the gut feelings I get..which could prove to be nothing- or could prove to be right. I think I have good intuition but I cannot say that I am always right. I have been burned..so I am hypervigilent. I don't think he should have any verbal contact with her..he says that he cannot help it..they work together..and that will end in two weeks. There was never a question as to whether or not I am OK with him seeing someone else...I just had such a hard time proving it because he is protected by the four walls of his office. He (nor I) can access his email from home. H used to see her just in the office..she would come back at night and sneak in. He would never go out anywhere with her when he was still living at home so it was very difficult to catch..hence my tapping his lunch bag.

I guess the only way I can tell if it is really over with her is by his consistency in behavior over a period of time. My H contacted me prior to me reading these responses...I will post it separately so I can take another couple of 2x4's to my head.

[lolawar]

For months and months I got tied up with talks with my H that would go on for hours. It was abusive and I never should have participated. It was simply a way for him to purge his guilt yet keep on truckin' down the affair and divorce path. Don't put yourself in the same position I did unless you are certain it is only you and your H in the talks.

This is what I am most concerned about. I realize that the OW leaving his office is not the answer to anything..nor does it guarantee that the A is over. He seems to think this is the greatest thing ever..he says he is relieved.

Regarding the abuse...I had my fair share of it as well...that is why I needed to kick him out. It wasn't healthy. Now I am at a strange place..I am afraid to not keep my wall up a mile high (complete darkness)...and I am afraid to not open up a little bit to him if his efforts to reconcile are genuine. I have been burned one too many times...I question every word he says...and analyze how he says things. I know the answer is detaching...some trigger goes off and I am reattached like a flee to a dog.

Your H is not unique. No cheaters are.

Their behaviors and words during an A are so predictable. I have heard every line..some multiple times.

[lolawar]

I will just bend over now for my 2x4's
...my H called earlier today and apologized for this morning. I didn't say much...because I really didn't have much to say. He said that he didn't mean to act the way he did and he understands why I would doubt him...he was lost when we were talking, runnng late for court, and was becoming grouchy..blah blah blah.

I know it doesn't appear that I have gone dark at all...but if you ask my H- he would have to disagree. Again..he brought up the fact that I don't answer text messages, respond to emails, or answer the phone. "Why can't I ever get in touch with you?"- which he has said to me quite a few times the past couple of weeks. He proceeded to say that he wants to be my priority...no matter if I am work, or with friends, or with family. If I cannot talk..he would like a text back letting him know..instead of constantly ignoring him. I told him that I was not ready to do that. He said OK..well if we make it through this..at some point- he needs to be my priority once again. OK.....

H then asks me about the treadmill...if I plan to use it etc etc.. I told him that I was going to start riding my bike again now that the weather is getting nicer. I told him that I needed to get different tires on my bike...and he insisted that he take it for me. He wants me to learn how to put the new tires on...but he wanted to go to the store and pick out the right ones for me. H also wanted to get me better handle bars and foot pegs. At first I said No- that I could take care of it..but he insisted. Was going to the house today to pick up my bike and get it taken care of.

Listen- I am not getting overly excited..or even slightly excited...I know my H is manipulative..and I know that I can be manipulated. I will continue to stay as dark as possible without being pitch black. I think I need to leave a little light on..right?

[Truegritter]

Lola I thought I posted this to you this a.m. have been out all day. I pulled this from my thread from Lostforwords. This is your answer:

She definitely knows I don't approve.

That is really all that needs to be conversed about the affair. She knows he doesn't approve....nothing more. Let's face the reality....if a spouse is already having an affair, what are the chances they will give a rats a$$ about a boundary enforcement to stop it?

Let's look at it from stage that the affair has just ended. I think there is one of three probably developments from that.

1-The spouse moves on to the next affair. Obviously still in MLC and their personal issues haven't been addressed. Causes of this may include LBS intervention, another spouse intervention, or just the relationship went south. In any case....the MLC person has not gotten to the point for self review. Until that happens it could move to affairs 2,3, 4, or whatever or worse yet...a divorce, quick remarriage, and a reenactment of the process again.

2-The spouse withdrawals, goes through their own pain cycle, and completes self review. This will eventually happen.....the deal for the LBS is to wait until it happens which is all in the hands of the LBS. This is USUALLY seen with a relationship ending on it's own...sometimes boundaries speed it along, but more than likely not. Issues are addressed and not buried.

3-The spouse just comes home....sounds sweet doesn't it? The LBS made a stand that forces the WAS to return...Oh my, what power the LBS has. The problem that makes this one actually the worst option.....no one has addressed their issues. Problems in the marriage prior to the affair are rarely addressed. So here returns the WAS spouse.....how do we see that happening a majority of the time? Go to newcomers and read some of the longer boundary enforcement posters......it is amazing that they keep reliving the same scenario over and over.

What we need to do is detach, accept the marriage of OLD is dead, and deal with our part of it's demise. If the marriage is really meant to be, the WAS will return. If not, then we have dealt with our issues and don't carry them forward. In either option.....what is happening with the WAS's affair should have no impact on our development. So in that light....it doesn't matter what is going on. If the affair ends....what matters is how the MLC'er moves through their tunnel.

This was in response to your question whether I need to talk to W about A (again)

Make sure you scroll down and get the whole quote.

It's IMPORTANT.

No other answer will stop this madness. I'm not sure I'm qulaified to give you a 2 X 4 since I'm still pulling splinters out of my own head. Look back at how many times these wise folks have been here giving you GREAT advice.

Go back and look at your thread! Do you want to keep living in pain and uncertainty?

[lolawar]

Thanks Grit-

If the marriage is really meant to be, the WAS will return. If not, then we have dealt with our issues and don't carry them forward. In either option.....what is happening with the WAS's affair should have no impact on our development. So in that light....it doesn't matter what is going on. If the affair ends....what matters is how the MLC'er moves through their tunnel.

I am kind of confused. I am not begging my H to come home..actually not even asking him to come home..would actually prefer he didnt come home right now. How do I know when he is ready to come home? How do I know he has moved through the tunnel? How do I know if it was actually a MLC that he was going through? Do I just continue to watch and see if he makes some consistent changes? I don't know how to act right now or what to do....He is all over the place...making me feel like I am all over the place. I really need some consistent behavior. Without this..I don't want him home (boundary)... I know that part of detaching is not allowing his moods impact my life...god..this stuff is so tough

[Truegritter]

Right now you're in #3. He wants to come home but has not gone through what happens in option #2 which is completes self review, makes changes etc.

Old marriage is dead so when you feel like this (#2) has happened then by all means start talking to him and maybe let him move back and piece your M back together.

Unless you detach you will not make it to option 2 and neither will he. If you are still in the same drama of the M that was there b4 you won't be healthy enough to see any of this.

Does that make sense? That's why the mantra DO FOR YOU.

[Truegritter]

Lola?

Tough day yesterday. A lot to think about. I know this is tough to digest and process. BELIEVE ME.

Look what happened yesterday. When you were in crisis ... all the angels came out to help.

Pearl, Citygirl, Marriedcrazy, Lostforwords (when he responded to you on my thread)

With pain comes growth and understanding. These folks have already been through this stuff. Your situation may seem unique but these principles apply.

YOUR OLD MARRIAGE IS DEAD. You have to mourn it and move on. Move on doesn't mean D. Move on means move on for YOU. Your H is trying to manipulate you into the old M. That's his new drug(if he's really given up the old drug)He's scared. He wants his mama back (you).