WAW still around, DBing starting to work

[sandi2]

Try to avoid any talks when she has had a very stressful day.

I'm afraid citygirl may be right. I was in such hopes that she had gotten out of the A. Sounds as if the contact has gotten stronger recently and she cannot pretend any longer.

I think you need to totally back away from all hugs and any signs of affection b/c she is completely turned off by it. Sorry.....WAW's in an A are that way.

Have to go for now, but I will check back.

[flowmom]

GW, I'm sorry that you're dealing with so much anxiety about this. I thought of you when I read this on the quotations post:

Replace the mind-reading, fear and catastrophising with goals/solutions. Go from victim to empowered. This is how to handle it.

Hi all
Context: I panicked when he said we need to have a talk. And we do need to. But because it came from him, and because I didn’t know which aspect of what we need to talk about he meant, and because it was with a stern and serious face, and because I react to anyone’s displeasure with blinding dread and worst-thoughts scenario, I was already a wreck before he walked out the door. I thought my day was wrecked, as I would now spend the whole of it ruminating and stressing about the conversation to come, the make or break of it. I was already disintegrating into a mess, thinking about what he might say, how I might react, how I might feel, which was all my DBing resolve was dissolving into a puddle of fright and head-spinning incompetence. No amount of telling myself that I would be ok no matter what happened would relieve it.

Solution: And then I did something different. I stopped playing conversations in my head, thinking about what I would say/might say/ in response to whatever he might say. I didn’t even try and distract myself, knowing that I would still be obsessing, and working myself up in the process. Instead I came to the computer, sat down and wrote out my goals. What I wanted for the future. I wrote it in detail, what I would see, what I wanted to have happen and why. In half an hour, my anxiety and being a victim to the situation totally reversed. Instead of worrying about what I might say in response to whatever he put forward, I knew what I would say, because I was now firmly grounded in my goals, what I wanted. This then gave me the confidence, courage and words, so that I knew what I would be saying. I was now no longer afraid of any conversation, or even confrontation, if it came to that.

A few people have remarked that when I talk about my relationship and what I wanted, it was about us, about him, never about me. I have been so focused on placating and caring for him, his feelings, the relationship, that I didn’t even know I was doing this to the extent that my goals and needs had taken a back seat. And this was making me weak and a victim to whatever was going on.

DB talks about it, but I urge anyone that if you haven’t sat down and written out your goals, and in positive terms (ie what you want to have happen, not what you don’t want), to do it. It can totally give you back your power and make you feel less of a victim and potentially reactive rather than proactive, to your spouse or the situation.

[gutwrenching]

Flowmom - I love that...thank you...need to use it

Busy weekend, typical weekend, couple of downs and a few ups too, very good Sunday, not future talks yet...just going with the flow for now and continuing to DB.

[gutwrenching]

Dare I say there has been continuous progress since what might have been just a pullback after last trip?

The talk about the future and where we go from here has never happened. I have not brought it up again and neither was W after bringing it up two evenings in a row about a week ago.

Communication still friendly, still quite a bit of it, and still no R or M talk though. Also we have had no discussions on where we live after moving this summer...the rhetoric has all been "we, us, our next place" but no substantial talks on even which areas we would look to live.

Affection is at all time highs since bomb. Hugs, affectionate touches/pats/etc becoming frequent...heck to be honest, more of that now than even before the bomb before there were issues. W not resisting. W has even initiated affectionate touching a couple of times now. But still just the one kiss, that goodby kiss from about 2 weeks ago.

Another interesting discussion was about us buying a new TV. I was leery to spend this kind of money, make a big purchase, with the unknown of the future. But I never voiced that as my reason. As we discuss more and more, W seems to think we should do it, and then rationalizes by saying let’s just call it our anniversary gift. My jaw hit the floor. We have always gotten something together, something significant for our anniversary…but our anniversary is about 2 months away! But we just bought our anniversay gift!

We are both busy. Her stress level is a bit high, but despite all that, we seem to be doing better together.
The roller coaster continues

[flowmom]

GW, that does sounds encouraging. I wish you could really just enjoy it without having the underlying anxiety. Wishing for the best for you!

[gutwrenching]

Anxiety has actually been very limited. Doing well.

[sandi2]

Good to hear from you GW, hope you have a good holiday weekend.

[Butterfly1]

where have you been? what is the latest?

[gutwrenching]

Long update, because we had the “talk” last night…about 90 minutes or so. This was the talk about where are we at, where do we go from here with the upcoming move.

For those that want the readers digest version, here it is: we still have to talk a little more, but neither of us think the right thing to do is to S while we are moving. My mid-range goal all along has been to stay together when we move, so I have to be pleased about this development, even if I’d like a little more.

Talk was calm, honest. I validated a ton, used phrases like I am sorry you feel that way but understand how you got there and I understand how you would see things like that… Established some boundaries on the move and future events.

Some of the key discussion points:
I was able to convey the message that we would not be best friends if we D. She said we have to be because of the girls. I said no, we can be friendly and cordial but I won’t be there for you, we won’t share our days, we won’t bounce everything off of each other. We would have to move on with our lives. I told her I would miss my best friend. She said she would miss all that too.

We talked a lot about the physical connection (well, the lack of a physical connection right now). She says she has no drive or desire. And although she always wanted and needed the physical before, she doesn’t right now. That one is interesting if it is true. I would say Physical Touch was her primary LL…could it really have changed?

She said over and over that there is no spark, and without a spark, there is no desire for physical anything. She said the hugs were nice every once in a while, but not always and she doesn’t feel she needs them. I used the sorry you feel that way more than once and encouraged that we have to find this and we can. She is not so sure we can. I said something like I can’t make you be attracted to me and she said its not about attraction, it is about the spark.

She did tell me that I have changed, she can see that. But she doesn’t know how to get the spark, and she said she still didn’t know if she had it in her. She had tried so many times in the past. And she says we haven’t gone anywhere and its been 5 months. I nicely said it hasn’t been 5 months. I said for the longest time you hated me. She said hate was too strong of a word, she was angry. I said nothing. Then she said yes I used the word hate, I am sorry I did. And I told her I spent a bunch of time in these last months figuring out me, not really working on us.

She then asked me why was I the way I was in the past in our M. So I opened up and was honest. I let her in...probably deeper than I ever have about anything in the past. Told her about what I had learned about why I acted/reacted the way I did and how I know better now, never again. Let her know it was difficult for me to tell her all this and embarassing. She then basically validated my feelings on this.

She told me that what we are doing now is exhausting...that we can’t go on like this forever. I agreed (and I do), I said it is exhausting but any option is going to difficult and exhausting. Working on M, S, or D will all be difficult and exhausting at this point. I told her I have had times where I felt like giving up on the M/R. That surprised her. She asked what would make me give up on the M; I said I don’t know and not sure if I did know if I would tell you. She said is that because you are afraid I would use that info to drive you away. I said yes. She said to me that she would never do that to me. I just said that is good to hear. She asked if I had someone else in-mind already if we were to split. I said no, who in the world could that be. She said someone you met on line maybe. I just said no, not all and then asked her the same question. She said no, she just figures if we D that she will be alone.

She did tell me she doesn’t know what happened when I left on my trip and she had the flood of feelings and emotions about me leaving and was crying. And that she hasn’t felt any of that since…

We also talked about the move. She said the easiest thing to do is move together, find a place to live together and then see. Said there will be enough stress on the kids, we don’t need to create more. Maybe 6 or 12 months down the road, one of us moves somewhere close by, maybe even a duplex or something next door or across the street.

Here I set a boundary. I was willing to move together on the premise of lets see where things go, but I would not move with a set plan in mind to S in 6 or 12 months and that I would not live that close if we D…again we would need to move on with our lives.

She said the kids and the security I bring are the reasons she is staying right now, but she doesn’t know if those are good enough reasons to stay and that there has to be more. I validated her feelings. I said that for now, that is a good enough reason to stay but yes we have to take the next step forward at some point. We cannot go on like this forever. But it will take both of us, I can’t get us to the next step by myself.

What I didn’t hear this time: W never used the phrase “emotional bond” which is a first in any kind of serious conversation. Maybe that was because we talked so much about the physical connection we are missing right now. W never used the phrase “I don’t know if I can get to place where I am willing to try”…that is a phrase she has used every time. The message was still there kind of, because of feeling no spark and not thinking we can get a spark. W also never said she is trying or willing to try…and I know Sandi, the LBH always wants to hear that but often won’t. So I won’t be disappointed. She also never came out and said she isn’t trying….which is another thing I normally have gotten.

[flowmom]

Wow, GW. That conversation covered a lot of ground. It seems like there's a lot of reason for optimism. You communicated very clearly and set some boundaries.

My H talked about the spark being gone when he bombed me. I think that was his main motivation for moving out. IMO, the spark was there before and it could be there again. A lot of circumstances have contributed to losing it...mostly parenting.

Anyway, cheering you on from the sidelines.