It's a tough call. MC could help, but you don't want to pressure him. If you're not ready to make a decision tomorrow, you can just listen and say you hear what he is feeling, and you appreciate him sharing it with you but you will need a few days to process it all and come to some decisions from your end. You don't have to agree with his opinions to hear how he feels and nod.
If he has shown no interest in not hanging out with the guys every day and not smoking weed every day, maybe he is really choosing that lifestyle over a married lifestyle. I know it sounds crazy, but it IS possible. Esp. if all his guy friends are single and making it look grass is greener.
I would not say the word "faults" to him tomorrow. Especially if he feels like a failure right now. If you want the option to work on the R, the first place to start is with his confidence and hope.
no, i wouldn't use the word "faults," good call. i want him to know that while his actions and decisions have hurt me, that i am not beyond repair and i'd like to at least know that we did everything we could to make our M work.
i don't think his single friends are making him feel like the grass is greener. i know he initially did the typical male thing which was to go out and drink your face off to avoid thinking about the situation you're in. last time i saw him about 2 weeks ago, he said he'd been cutting back on the drinking and going out because he knew it was not helping the work he was trying to do in becoming a better person. also, in conversations we've had in the recent past, he admitted that he was indulging in self-serving behaviors like being out with his friends and drinking so frequently, so at least he's aware of his actions.
i don't know if he would chose that lifestyle over being married, but he may chose it over the pain and hurt he's feeling right now...
how can i start with his confidence and hope?
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
That's awesome that he's coming to your house. You might feel more secure in your own place than in a public one.
Do you have time to buy yourself something to turn him on? Something to remind him what he'd lose if you separated?
If he does bring papers, maybe ask to think about it. Ask for the MC as a condition if you feel comfortable. Some kind of gesture that says that YOU can feel comfortable with having tried everything. If you get a good referral, you'll get a good counselor. You can even have a first meeting with her alone to test her theories. Or maybe Retrouvaille in May. http://www.retrouvaille.org/dates.php
You don't have to be a passive waiter to see if he wants to return. As MWD points out, when he seems open, test the waters. Just be ready to pull back if it is freaking him out.
I was reminded that if my W wants a separation, then it doesn't mean there isn't love. It means there is hurt, and hurt comes from his love. Remember that. You are both hurt. Rebuild and let go of expectations from the past.
While you may not be now, or after having met him, I feel so much hope for you. I think you can make this work through considerate and loving words and actions.
I'm not sure. Do you think he's literally depressed? If so, you can only not make things worse for him. Lack of hope and feeling like a failure is a symptom of depression. So it depends if he's reacting to the situation itself or it's gone beyond that and he's in depression. People in depression have thought distortions supposedly. They literally have trouble believing the glass can be refilled.
Our divorce mediator turned counsellor reminded us of the importance of touch. Maybe sit next to him and offer a touch. He may pull away, but in my experience my W accepted it for a minute at least, and that is a real hope-message sender.
i'm glad we're meeting in a more private place, i think it'll be good for us to really express our feelings to each other without having to worry about what the people next to us are thinking.
we actually do a fair amount of touching when we do see each other. holding hands, or he'll stroke my face or hair. we embrace...last time i saw him he cried in my arms for almost a minute before letting go.
he may be in the midst of depression but i'm not a professional so i can't say for sure. is there a way to broach that subject without making him feel like i think he's depressed? maybe ask if he and his IC have discussed it and/or any medication for it? i don't want to come across and sounding like, clearly, you are depressed and need medication to fix yourself.
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
My W still thinks her self-esteem is just fine. She is going to IC though, and I pray that with time she'll see that.
I made it a condition of any hope to stay M, but I was in the position to do that. My IC gave me a visual that I gave her a few days ago, and that has helped both her and I understand the esteem problem, and my role in it.
Ideas only... - Maybe accept responsibility, "I know my criticism has been hard and made you feel really depressed. Those meds seem to make everything so black and dreary, too." Then add in, "But I want to be living with you and this problem - working on it together. I'm ready to be there for you as you work on it". Once you are together under one roof, then you could step into the problem one toe at a time.
- Maybe ask some questions like, "Has the new job made you feel more hopeful?" If he is all negative on quite a few small questions, it might be an indication that things are bad. You could then empathise, "It sounds like these last few months have been very hard. Is your IC supporting that and suggesting meds to help cut the pain, or are you using your awesome and creative thinking to get by". Maybe a final touch of, "I want to be there for you. I really can see now more of the challenges & fears you face and I'm ready to go forward supporting you".
- My personal favourite... "I'm so glad for this separation because it has forced me to really look at where I've screwed up during our M. I'm sorry to have put you through that".
In what I've written, you might notice I didn't suggest anything to get him to own up. IF he's clinically depressed or just feeling depressed from failures, then he can own up when he's ready. He has, in general terms, accepted his failures. Maybe overaccepted, too.
Don't suggest you made him depressed. You didn't. People with depression tend to externalize blame. You DO NOT want to take responsibility for causing his depression. You didn't. I suppose you could bring about in a roundabout way if he brings up IC on his own whether the IC has mentioned depression or anything and leave it at that? Some ICs don't. They just keep them coming back forever and never send them for meds even if they would benefit from it.
i've actually already said a lot of those things to my H. i've accepted a lot of responsibility for being critical and resentful and have apologized to him for making him feel judged. i do not believe that that is what has him feeling so low. last time we met up he said there was not one single aspect of his life that was going well for him. the situation with us, he HATES his new job and is miserable there, his family is experiencing problems due to his 14 year old sister acting out and rebelling to the point where it's tearing his family apart, and he also said he feels like he has no real friends to lean on. i KNOW the last few months have been hard on him.
with very few exceptions, i have been nothing BUT supportive and have been there for him to lean on when he's had a bad day or is feeling low. he has thanked me on numerous occassions for my words of encouragement and my support. he knows i am around to be supportive but i think he's getting to a point now where he's distancing himself from my support, and i'm not really understanding that.
and i also have told him that if nothing else, this separation has made me realise things about myself that i was not happy about and has given me an opportunity to grow and learn who i want to be, and to actively pursue that person.
i don't really need or want him to own up to anything when we meet tonight. i'm not at that point anymore. looking backwards will not help us move forward.
Me30 H29 M2.5 T5 H moved out 1/23/2010 H wants signed agreement 3/30/2010 ...feeling hopeless
