The dreaded LIMBO

[Allen A]

Just shut him out.

"You don't want me, a family, OR a marriage remember? Bachelor Pad?... calling ME is part of being in a MARRIAGE. You deal with your problems as a single man and as an ADULT.. just like I HAD TO."

HANG UP

[Allen A]

And Jasper is spot on.. your husband is cake eating... playing both sides of the fence and YOU are opening the GATE

[4luv]

I know guys :-) Thx for the feedback! I think I had a FEW too many drinks during the wine tasting and at dinner last night. I didn't call him, he continued to text...I was too tired to even think about responding to any of his texts last night. Then he called again this afternoon. I answered this time and listened for about 3 minutes but put him on hold enough times that he got frustrated. After my last time of putting him on hold, I said "actually, I am really busy right now so I will talk to you another time." And for a quick second, I thought about calling him back but NOT GONNA DO IT :-) I don't even wanna talk to him. Oh, and then he tells me that he wants to come see our son next weekend for Easter but he is not going to church. Oh, and during the convo his best friend apparently gave him a pep talk last night and told husband that loosing that job will be the best thing because he hasn't been the same since he started working there. (BTW, this is EXACTLY what I told husband in the few couseling sessions we went to and counselor suggested that husband should change jobs first to see if that made him feel better rather than giving up his marriage as a way to feel better).

I have a slight confession also...I do not feel the love that I had for my husband before. I know that if we weren't married I would just walk away at this point (I guess I have walked away physically but held on emotionally). I don't feel like he can be the type of man that I want in my life. I was holding out hope that he could be but I just don't see it anymore. I actually feel like at any moment I could snap on him and all the things that I have been holding in trying to understand him and not rock the boat are gonna explode and come out of me if he says anything stupid or selfish to me. I just feel like I don't care how he reacts and that he needs to be told about himself ONE good time. Matter of fact, if he comes to me with some sob story I really wanna let him have it and say GROW THE F&#K UP and stop feeling sorry for yourself!! I usually vent here but I feel like I never REALLY told him a piece of my mind...which is what I would have done in the past. I think that me being "nice" has been a REAL TURN off not only for myself but for my husband as well. Ever since I didn't break up him for the UTLIMATE betrayal of cheating on me while we were dating and getting another girl pregnant, I think that was the point husband lost respect for me. I thought that I was turning over a new leaf and although hurt (and yes I still yelled and screamed) I showed forgiveness and compassion and prayed to God to get us through this after husband (boyfriend at the time) showed so much remorse. But I guess my kindness was taken for weakness.

[4luv]

Oh, and I WILL NOT be around while he is visiting son. I already made plans to be out of the house whenever he comes to see son. My cousin is the ultimate "mean girl" and is my "DB" person in real life. She doesn't even know about "DB" but she is the ultimate "bitch" described in the book "Why Men Love Bitches."...LOL.

My dad said taht if husband comes to visit son then he will have to take his some place else because he won't let him hang around his house.

[Allen A]

I have a slight confession also...I do not feel the love that I had for my husband before. I know that if we weren't married I would just walk away at this point (I guess I have walked away physically but held on emotionally). I don't feel like he can be the type of man that I want in my life. I was holding out hope that he could be but I just don't see it anymore. I actually feel like at any moment I could snap on him and all the things that I have been holding in trying to understand him and not rock the boat are gonna explode and come out of me if he says anything stupid or selfish to me. I just feel like I don't care how he reacts and that he needs to be told about himself ONE good time.

This is a very interesting passage...

THIS passage is classic wayward thinking.

THIS is the attitude your H picked up for YOU YEARS ago... NOW you are just getting caught up.

I have a theory, it's mine I have never read this anywhere so bear with me, that divorce busting doesn't get effective until the LBS becomes wayward as well.

By this I mean they get to a state of mind where the following is in effect :

1. They don't want divorce, but they aren't afraid of it.
2. They love their spouse, but they don't want to be around them
3. They put their health and safety first before the happiness of their spouse
4. They have discovered a great deal of anger and the spouse is the target of choice
5. They are willing to withold information from their spouse to protect themselves
6. They ENJOY the time they have when their spouse is not around

I think spouses really have a lot more personal power once they get to this stage, one you are describing above. This stage is not all that different from what the WS thinks or behaves like.

The key difference is that you got there gradually while fighting for your marriage, so you have CONTROL over this while the WS doesn't.

It is good to see. I am happy to see when people reclaim thier dignity, and to my mind this is a big part of the fight when you fight for your marraige. You don't just fight your spouse's doubts or thier indifferece, you have to fight for your dignity too... because the WS is walking all over you the whole time.

It sounds 4luv, as if you have found it.

[jasper67]

4luv- I agree w/ Puppy, the attitude definately sounds/feels familiar to me.

I hope to be there soon...I have my moments, but I am constantly living in he past- shoulda, coulda, woulda...NC definately makes it easier to get there- not like I can push/pull W if we have nothing to do w/ oneanother...

I envy you for reaching this point..I am still in shock/denial...

I appreciate your kind words on my sitch and really hope you're well...

[4luv]

thx Allen and Jasper...

It is actually an up and down range of emotions for me Jasper. Sometimes all this anger comes in me because I feel like husband "got away" so easy with his decisions. I try not to focus on him but I will admit that I get sooo upset.

I didn't call husband back last night like I said I would and low and behold he text me at midnight last night asking me wassup...why didn't i call him back. I didn't reply (again didn't feel like it) and decided to wait until today to get back with him. He texted me this morning again and I did call him back this time (i hate texting btw so a call is better for me). He just chit chatted, he asked me what I was up to. I told him I was looking for something of mine that son misplaced so while he was talking i was kind of end and out of the conversation. I told him I was grilling today and husband replied "you are really living it up!" (I counted to 5 before responding because it is these type of STUPID comments that are pissing me off...of course i am not "living it up" is what I wanted to say! I am living in my parent's house, don't have my own space, being a single mom, etc.) I ended up just saying, "me grilling is not living it up...just trying to not spend money eating out." I got off the phone after this, told him I had to go, reminded him about the paperwork/money to turn in before tuesday for our apartment lease that is ending and then hung up.

My question is...When do I get to show anger. I know that MWD says to be upbeat when talking to WS but doesn't being upbeat make the WS think that everything is going wonderful and that you are not hurt/angry by their actions! Doesn't being upbeat say that you walking out on your family was the best thing you could have done because I have never been happier. I just wanna know what is the line to walk? I guess that is what Tupy was saying about Protection phase...cordial conversation can be taken as I am perfectly accepting of the life and path you are choosing for yourself and for your family. I guess MWD's approach is that being upbeat will make the WS see what a "GREAT AND FUN" person the spouse they left behind is.

Also, Husband was saying in today's conversation that he gets his new apartment on Wednesday and asked when I would come see it. I said I am not coming and you are wrong if you think I am going to come visit you and celebrate you getting your own apartment. He kept going on how we could "break in the new apartment." Again, I could have laid him a new one and ripped into him but i kept having my conflicting thoughts on how to walk the fine line of being upbeat while at the same time showing that I don't approve of his choices. What I wanted to say was "look, you don't want me, you don't wanna be married so don't keep playing these flirty games with me. You will not be ML to me, you and I are not "dating" or any of that so long as you CHOOSE to live your so called bachelor life." Then I would have hung up.

[Allen A]

I think MWD's advice on being upbeat doesn't apply when infidelity is in play.

I really believe protesting the affair and ending the conversation with that protest ONLY is the best way to go.

Your husband in particular wants "Off the Hook" for his behaviour, and when he calls up to make conversation and you offer it, he gets his cake.

It is similar to Ken in his thread blasting his wife and apologizing for it the next morning... it invalidates the protest completely.

Upbeat in your case 4luv I think is just letting the husband think you are satisfied with his beahviuor... I really think protest is more effective to someone like him right now.

How did he respond when you told him earlier that his parents didn't want him staying there at all?

How does your husband USUALLY react when someone PROTESTS something he's done to them?

In short, you get to show anger and hurt when you protest... being upbeat is a converse strategy, they don't both go together.

I actually like your last paragraph, I think that's the way to go here... upbeat just doesn't fit with that strategy. There IS no line to walk in my opinion.

You either protest and shut him OUT, or you be upbeat and inviting hoping he will warm up to marriage again...

These two strategies are in conflict... Bo Peep vs Ghandi essentially

[jasper67]

I am confused in that after initial protest I would assume we would be in the protection phase- where anything be delt w/ through texts...

4luv- I feel your pain, but if he's showing no remorse, what good does it do to convey anything to him?

Believe me I am not good at any of this...the only thing I can do right, finally, is NC...as I dont have to do anything at all.

Wish it were helping more, probably just need more time.

I feel like you would be getting along better if you didn't have to engage him at all...make him sweat etc- you wouldnt then be second guessing yourself on how to be...you would just be.

Sorry, I'm super tired and hope none of this is taken the wrong way.

((huggs))

[4luv]

Just updating...

I have been having a great time, enjoying the weather. Husband has still been in contact but most of the time I don't answer still and just text him back if he calls several times in a row to see what he wants.

I actually just got off the phone with husband (he had called and texted last night so I decided to answer when he called today). When I answered he said "I was just calling to bore you." I said, I am already bored enough as I am working right now. Today is the day that he moves into his apartment and out of our old apartment. I left a few things behind and he was asking if I wanted to keep those few items. After going through the items the convo was as follows:

H: Will you move back up here with me?
Me: No. Not given the current state of things with us.
H: What do you mean.
Me: There has been no change in what got us to this point from what I can see.
H: I guess you are right. What do you want to see from me?
Me: I want to know that you are committed to me and only me. I am not going back into a relationship where I can't trust the person I am with. I am not into having to snoop, or you telling me one thing and then doing something else. Or you just up and leaving without telling me. I don't want that type of relationship. It is lame.
H: You are right. It wasn't right the way I acted. I think I was just acting out. I was a ticking time bomb. I didn't want you around to see me destruct. I still feel like I am going to destruct.
Me: nothing.

H: It is like I want to try to make our marriage work but at the same time I feel I might not be doing it for the right reasons. I just don't know how I feel. And when I talk to you I can tell that you are happy. I actually feel the happiness from you. You seem so different from when we were living together. Like you got your pep back. But me, I am still in the same place...just as unhappy. I mean, I know you are not happy with the situation but you seem to be happy with life still.

Me: YEs, well talking to the therapist has really helped me sort out my feelings.

H: I need to talk to someone but i dunno.

Me: you said you were but you never did.

H: i just haven't had time but i guess you could say it wasn't a priority. The thing about me is that when I put my mind to something I stick with my decision even if it is to my detriment. So with this apartment thing, its like I am trying to get something that I feel i missed out on even if it costs me dearly. In the end I might look back and realize that it wasn't worth it but I still am going to do it regardless. that is just the way I've always made decisions.

Me: well, how is that working out for you?

H: sometimes good and sometimes bad. Its like i am going to do enough to make sure our son is taken care of and I know that he is being well cared for so i don't have to worry about that. i just want to get back what i feel i missed out on even though i am not sure what it is yet. I am chasing something and feel like i can't stop until i get it. and i didn't want you around while i went down that path.

me: well, that is on you but you are saying that things that drug addicts say, verbatim. they are always chasing something and its usually to the detriment of their family and friends and anyone else that loves and care about them.

H: I wouldnt say I am an addict but you are right when you put it like that.

Me: well, this is something you will have to figure out on your own.

H: you are right. Well, I feel a little better after talking to you. I was reading a card my mom gave to you when we first started dating and she told you that she knows I love you even if I don't show it. I never learned how to show love the right way but my mom was right about that card.

Well, this was a convo I did not expect and it doesn't change my stance. Rather, it just shows me that my husband is no where NEAR improving. Matter of fact, the pessimist in me in dealing with my husband believes that this convo was all just to "feel out where I stood in regards to our marriage." I ALMOST started to shut the door (and looking back over the convo I think I should have) and tell him that I am NEVER moving back with him. I gave him some hope though and part of me is regretting that but "it is what it is :-)"