The latest with me

[ImprovedRomeo]

crickets...chirp, chirp, chirp


LOL...ok FM, I'm feeling the 2x4 on my head and thank you for helping me build self confidence and positive outlook. I'll try to think of the good things about myself on my drive home today...

[ImprovedRomeo]

So DD was coughing a lot last night and especially this morning. She was being very sensitive and even started crying this morning after coughing quite a bit and asking for mommy, broke my heart. I just hugged her and told her mommy will pick her up later today.

We stopped at a donut shop on our way to her school, just something different and fun I thought.

I emailed STBX explaining to her that DD wasn't feeling well etc and if she could maybe pick her up early and give her some medicine. She replied saying 'ok I'll pick her up early and get her some medicine'. In the meantime I called her school and talked to her teacher who said she was doing OK. I've been waiting for an update all day but she didn't send me anything. This makes me upset. I was going to offer my help if she needs me for anything etc and was going to tell her to call me on my cell anytime at night if needed. sigh! I'll send her an email anyway...

[ImprovedRomeo]

So it's almost 9pm and DD's usually she calls me by now to say goodnight. So I text'd STBX if DD's already alseep since she wasn't feeling well. She texts back saying 'no we're still at chuck e cheese'. ugh! that makes me mad, it's already past DD's bed time and especially when she's not feeling well and didn't take a nap at school she's out with her. This is the sort of carelessness that irks me.

[OldFool]

I'm really sorry to hear about you and your ex and the unfortunate events during the divorce. How long has it been? How're you doing now? How's life looking for you?

Left 3.5 yrs ago, D 2 yrs ago. I'm fine...but different. The experience changes you in ways that take time to understand and ways that leave you irrevocably altered. Life looks OK, I guess. I've essentially gone back to the life I had before I met her. That wasn't intentional. In fact, I hadn't even noticed. A friend commented about it, not really even making a point, and it just dawned on me.

We both started taking each other for granted....

Well, I'm sure I'll get clubbed for saying it, but my response is, "Yeah, so what?" Perhaps this only proves I'm unfit for marriage, but I just don't get this whole "you take me for granted" thing. Sure, if one person is doing most of the work, the person who's getting the bargain ought to be grateful, but if everyone's carrying their share of the load, that's just part of the deal. But nowadays, if someone does a dish, mows a lawn, vacuums a floor, or folds a towel, they want a medal for it. I'm reminded of an old boss of mine who used to say, "If you do your job, that's cause for a paycheck, not a party in your honor."

So what's my point? When you're in a marriage, everyone chips in and shares the load. Your thanks for carrying half of my load is the fact I'm carrying half of yours...and vice versa. That comes off sounding just a bit harsher than I intend, but not by much. Perhaps my affinity for social contract theory has clouded my view, or maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but marriage used to be about banding together to face the reality of a harsh life together. A bulwark against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Now it seems more about whether or not you are meeting my needs, stroking my ego, and appreciating (which is coming dangerously close to worshiping) me enough. If that's what it's about, then it's little wonder barely half of all marriages survive. OK, I'll put my soapbox away now.

I'm truly at a loss for how to find a good lawyer. With the divorce court system the way it is can a lawyer really make that much of a difference?

To find a good attorney, find a divorce support group, make a few friends, and ask the guys if they recommend an attorney (or they may tell you who to avoid). Also, get the names of any good attorneys that your company, friends, or others have used for stuff that does not involve family/divorce matters and ask them for a referral. Good attorneys often know other good attorneys, even in other specialties (and the bad ones too). The inside track is where you get the best information.

As for what it will do for you, it probably won't help you pull off a miracle in the courtroom. What it'll do is help you make better decisions out of the courtroom so that you don't inadvertently do something that stacks the deck against you when you're in the courtroom.

I hope Kiki's having a much better luck than us rebuilding her family.

Hard to say since she doesn't appear to be around anymore. I like think she's found success and no longer needs us, but sometimes things fall apart and folks just stop making contact. I'm hoping for the former.

DB'ing is about creating an atmosphere where reconciliation can take place, but it is not a cure and there more stories of failure here than success because, in spite of what Ms. Weiner-Davis says, it is NOT possible for one person to save a marriage.

OF, why would you say that? it is SO possible. I know a few of us that have. I totally agree with what you said after that though, and I'm so sorry that your M was not saved (right now...you never know what may happen down the road), but Michelle did say it is not guaranteed. it definitely is something the other person has to choose as well, but DBing gives us the absolute best chance at saving our M. I never would have believed it, if it hadn't happened to me.

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to this as it seems like once you got over the shock of the statement, you essentially end up agreeing with me. However, for the sake of argument and others who might not share as much common ground, I'll reply as though you disagree with my entire statement.

So, how I can say it? For the same reason you can say "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." The fact you have found success is great, but it neither proves nor disproves my point. Your hypothesis is that if you are DB'ing and see success, you were the sole reason for it. However, that's a causal relationship that cannot be conclusively drawn from the facts at hand.

It reminds me of a guy down the block from me some years back. He got himself a dog and was telling me one day how the dog could understand him. I must have seemed skeptical (I was) as he opened the door to the house and whistled at the dog. Seeing a bit of daylight, fido made a beeline for the neighbors yard three doors down. In the meantime, my neighbor is yelling "here, boy", "heel", and a few other things. The dog is too busy sniffing one half of the bushes and marking the other half to notice or care. After a while, the dog gets bored and wanders back to my neighbor. He pats the dog on the head, says, "good boy", and looks at me like, "See, I told you so".

Like you, his hypothesis was that if the dog returned, he was the sole reason for it. This, of course, didn't take into account that after some period of time, the dog might simply get bored and return home regardless of whether my neighbor was calling him or not.

While I don't intend to take anything away from your DB efforts (I'm not saying such efforts aren't important), my guess is your success was also due to your spouse being willing to make it work. Were s/he dating other people, filing for divorce, refusing to see or talk to you, or one of a host of other destructive behaviors, there is absolutely nothing you, alone, by yourself, could do to stop his/her behavior or the ultimate result of it. The only way for that to happen is for your spouse to become a participant.

I'll say it again. You can unilaterally stop engaging in behaviors that put your relationship at risk, you can unilaterally reinforce the desired behavior of your spouse (though only if the behavior is already happening...you can't make it occur yourself), and you can unilaterally place yourself in a mindset that allows the other person to return (again, you can't make them return...only make it easy for him/her to do so if s/he so decides). However, you cannot, simply through your own actions or even sheer force of will, prevent your spouse from leaving you forever unless they choose not to. It's just as simple as that.

It's as much an argument over semantics as anything, but the mindset that goes along with toMAto is so vastly different from the one that goes along with toMAHto, that I think it's worth pointing out. If you believe you can, all by yourself, save your marriage, you are likely to get bogged down in all the nonsense of "should I say this?", "how should I handle that?", "should I smile, wink, nod, ignore, wince, grin, or whistle?", "do I buy her a gift or not?", "should I look sexy or plain?", "should I tell him/her I'm going out?", "should I text, e-mail, twitter, or phone?", yada, yada, yada. It's pointless.

However, if you believe that you can't save it yourself, but that you can keep from killing it, you're more likely to focus on things like, "how can I keep from allowing my knee-jerk negative reactions to damage the situation?", "is s/he needing more space and how can I do that without appearing to bail out?", "if I was controlling before, how can I be better at knowing where to draw the line between what I legitimately need and what I can really let go?".

Again, it's splitting hairs, but I hope the person asking this question can see how changing the perspective can result in behaviors that are more constructive and less obsessive.


OK, so a lot has transpired since I checked in on you last week. I could go through several parts individually, but I'm sensing a pattern so let me cut to the highlights.

1. You are way too invested in what she's thinking, how she sees you, etc. Stop. Read the section in DR about going dark...it's where you are right now (or at least where you should get to). If there were ever a case for the LRT, this is it. Of course, you can't go completely dark because of D6, but you're barely tapping sunset on the shoulder and you should be thinking more like the Tonight Show. Besides, there's no way you can figure out what she's thinking so everything is just guess or conjecture. Those form a poor basis for making decisions.

2. This is kind of more of #1, but you need to stop interjecting yourself into the conversation. Before you communicate, think of old Joe Friday..."Just the facts, ma'am." Leave out the not-very-cute, half funny, half desperate, half I'm-fishing-for-you-to-say-something-nice stuff like the "You don't need anyone evil on the trip" (at best it's pointless, at worst is counter-productive ). Leave out the defensive I'm-not-that-way stuff (she's not listening anyway). Leave out the if-I-just-explain-how-crazy-this-is-she'll-get-it stuff too (most women simply don't seem to be wired for that...'course that having been said, I can't really say what they are wired for either ).

3. Let go a bit. OK, so the tyke doesn't have a coat. Before you get "irked", wait for an actual problem, not the vague threat of one. You're reacting to simply the possibility of a problem that poses no serious risk anyway. Wait until she's actually sick...then have a conversation about how to avoid it next time. A cold isn't going to kill her (no...I'm not advocating for such as laissez-fair attitude if she were being exposed to a greater risk like Ebola). You're not going to be able to protect her from everything forever...might as well start getting a tiny bit of practice in now.

All-in-all, you seem to be getting good advice from others. Listen up.

Peace to you.

[ImprovedRomeo]

Hey OF, good to see you again and thanks for taking the time to write and advise. You're like an Ole Friend and I value your opinion.

I have gone dark as much as I can but only out of anger. Last night the whole episode almost got out of hands and I backslid a lot. After her text i called her to talk to DD and she didn't answer which pissed me off so I called again and again back to back and she still didn't answer. I almost texted her back saying 'how about I come pick DD up so you can party all night' but I didn't. I was still huffing and puffing over it when 10 mins later my phone rings and it's my DD saying she's in the car getting ready to go home. It calmed me down after I talked to DD but I'm sure STBX was upset at my phone calling and I probably verified that I'm too controlling...why did I do this? I have no clue some of it was probably ego that she wasn't answering me and some of it was I didn't know how DD was and some of it was the unknown of what she could possibly be talking about for 5+ hours with those people (parents of another kid at my DD's school), are they lawyers? is she trying to get a job where they may work etc etc. Last night was bad, couldn't sleep well all these thoughts running through my mind.

I think I caught whatever DD had, I have a mild fever and sore throat and I was supposed to go mtn biking today.

OF, I'll read your response a few times to let it all sink in a bit. I can advise others but when it comes to my own situation I can't take a step back from it to see the bigger picture.

[flowmom]

(((SR))) I think a healthy 180 for you would be letting go of parenting when your D is with her mother. I agree with you that it would have been appropriate for your D to be in bed earlier, but this is an area where micromanaging your W's parenting is not going to work for you -- not as a person, a coparent, or an H.

I'm a very involved parent too, so I know where you're coming from. H is planning to take my kids camping on a mountaintop on Wed night -- it will probably be too cold for them, and he's going with a parent with 2 children that my kids don't even like. But I'm letting go of it, because in the big picture that's better for everyone.

Remember that when you're stressing about your W's parenting, you're not taking the time you need to work on YOU. And you can't afford not to do that.

I'm still waiting for 7 things

[ImprovedRomeo]

FM, thanks. I needed to hear that from another parent.

Your last sentence made me LOL! I know I haven't forgotten about it. How about I give you a few:

1. I'm a good dad
2. I'm smart/technical and people value my advice
3. I'm a good friend (will go out of my way to help a friend out)
4. I'm good with managing money
5. I'm a caring person by nature (towards those in need, animals etc)

[BeginningAgain]

Romeo,

I'm 100% with FM on this. You've got to let it go regarding your W's parenting skills. Unless she is endangering the child's life, mum is the word. As best you can ignore it and be like a duck (let it roll off your back). It just causes you stress and it forces tension between you, W and D6.

I have two girls and I don't always agree with what my W lets them do or how she parents them, but I know that she is their mother and she would never want any harm to come with them. So I just zip it and keep my opinions to my self. I'm sure she doesn't always like how I parent them either, but she keeps that to herself as well.

Good start to your list, but you're missing a couple of items.

BA

[OldFool]

SR...you have got to get a grip and get off the emotional merry-go-round. FM could not have said it better!

I understand the temptation to let the mind wander. After discovering my ex had the OM sleep over in our home while I was out of town taking care of some business, I spent two weeks trying to get the image of them "getting it on" in our bed out of my mind. It spun around in there like it was caught in a feedback loop and nearly drove me to insanity.

What I did was tackle a home improvement project that really required skill and thought and then invited people over to see it when it was complete. I did the invite long before I was near completing the project. This served two purposes. First, it gave me something to occupy my mind. I couldn't make progress on the project if I was obsessing about "them". Second, it put me on a time schedule. I now had a deadline to beat so I couldn't just blow it off. Sure, it's a contrived solution to the problem, but it did work.

That's not to say I never think about it any more. Even all these years later, it still pops into my head under unusual (and generally unexpected) circumstances and it still hurts like @#&%#. But it broke me out of the obsessive feedback loop.

There is a whole part of your D6's life that is now outside of your control (and largely outside your influence) and there's nothing you can do about it. The sooner you come to terms with that the better. You might consider some individual counseling to help you get a handle on letting go. While it's hard to do...especially when it seems like everything else is spinning out of control...it's imperative that you make progress on this, both for your own sanity and for the benefit of the R (if one is still possible).

Good luck. It saddens me to see you so torn up and angry (though I fully understand both).

[flowmom]

1. I'm a good dad
2. I'm smart/technical and people value my advice
3. I'm a good friend (will go out of my way to help a friend out)
4. I'm good with managing money
5. I'm a caring person by nature (towards those in need, animals etc)

Good start . Now add 2 more good things that are more specific. You know I won't let you off the hook.