The latest with me

[OldFool]

I'm really sorry to hear about you and your ex and the unfortunate events during the divorce. How long has it been? How're you doing now? How's life looking for you?

Left 3.5 yrs ago, D 2 yrs ago. I'm fine...but different. The experience changes you in ways that take time to understand and ways that leave you irrevocably altered. Life looks OK, I guess. I've essentially gone back to the life I had before I met her. That wasn't intentional. In fact, I hadn't even noticed. A friend commented about it, not really even making a point, and it just dawned on me.

We both started taking each other for granted....

Well, I'm sure I'll get clubbed for saying it, but my response is, "Yeah, so what?" Perhaps this only proves I'm unfit for marriage, but I just don't get this whole "you take me for granted" thing. Sure, if one person is doing most of the work, the person who's getting the bargain ought to be grateful, but if everyone's carrying their share of the load, that's just part of the deal. But nowadays, if someone does a dish, mows a lawn, vacuums a floor, or folds a towel, they want a medal for it. I'm reminded of an old boss of mine who used to say, "If you do your job, that's cause for a paycheck, not a party in your honor."

So what's my point? When you're in a marriage, everyone chips in and shares the load. Your thanks for carrying half of my load is the fact I'm carrying half of yours...and vice versa. That comes off sounding just a bit harsher than I intend, but not by much. Perhaps my affinity for social contract theory has clouded my view, or maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but marriage used to be about banding together to face the reality of a harsh life together. A bulwark against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Now it seems more about whether or not you are meeting my needs, stroking my ego, and appreciating (which is coming dangerously close to worshiping) me enough. If that's what it's about, then it's little wonder barely half of all marriages survive. OK, I'll put my soapbox away now.

I'm truly at a loss for how to find a good lawyer. With the divorce court system the way it is can a lawyer really make that much of a difference?

To find a good attorney, find a divorce support group, make a few friends, and ask the guys if they recommend an attorney (or they may tell you who to avoid). Also, get the names of any good attorneys that your company, friends, or others have used for stuff that does not involve family/divorce matters and ask them for a referral. Good attorneys often know other good attorneys, even in other specialties (and the bad ones too). The inside track is where you get the best information.

As for what it will do for you, it probably won't help you pull off a miracle in the courtroom. What it'll do is help you make better decisions out of the courtroom so that you don't inadvertently do something that stacks the deck against you when you're in the courtroom.

I hope Kiki's having a much better luck than us rebuilding her family.

Hard to say since she doesn't appear to be around anymore. I like think she's found success and no longer needs us, but sometimes things fall apart and folks just stop making contact. I'm hoping for the former.

DB'ing is about creating an atmosphere where reconciliation can take place, but it is not a cure and there more stories of failure here than success because, in spite of what Ms. Weiner-Davis says, it is NOT possible for one person to save a marriage.

OF, why would you say that? it is SO possible. I know a few of us that have. I totally agree with what you said after that though, and I'm so sorry that your M was not saved (right now...you never know what may happen down the road), but Michelle did say it is not guaranteed. it definitely is something the other person has to choose as well, but DBing gives us the absolute best chance at saving our M. I never would have believed it, if it hadn't happened to me.

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to this as it seems like once you got over the shock of the statement, you essentially end up agreeing with me. However, for the sake of argument and others who might not share as much common ground, I'll reply as though you disagree with my entire statement.

So, how I can say it? For the same reason you can say "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." The fact you have found success is great, but it neither proves nor disproves my point. Your hypothesis is that if you are DB'ing and see success, you were the sole reason for it. However, that's a causal relationship that cannot be conclusively drawn from the facts at hand.

It reminds me of a guy down the block from me some years back. He got himself a dog and was telling me one day how the dog could understand him. I must have seemed skeptical (I was) as he opened the door to the house and whistled at the dog. Seeing a bit of daylight, fido made a beeline for the neighbors yard three doors down. In the meantime, my neighbor is yelling "here, boy", "heel", and a few other things. The dog is too busy sniffing one half of the bushes and marking the other half to notice or care. After a while, the dog gets bored and wanders back to my neighbor. He pats the dog on the head, says, "good boy", and looks at me like, "See, I told you so".

Like you, his hypothesis was that if the dog returned, he was the sole reason for it. This, of course, didn't take into account that after some period of time, the dog might simply get bored and return home regardless of whether my neighbor was calling him or not.

While I don't intend to take anything away from your DB efforts (I'm not saying such efforts aren't important), my guess is your success was also due to your spouse being willing to make it work. Were s/he dating other people, filing for divorce, refusing to see or talk to you, or one of a host of other destructive behaviors, there is absolutely nothing you, alone, by yourself, could do to stop his/her behavior or the ultimate result of it. The only way for that to happen is for your spouse to become a participant.

I'll say it again. You can unilaterally stop engaging in behaviors that put your relationship at risk, you can unilaterally reinforce the desired behavior of your spouse (though only if the behavior is already happening...you can't make it occur yourself), and you can unilaterally place yourself in a mindset that allows the other person to return (again, you can't make them return...only make it easy for him/her to do so if s/he so decides). However, you cannot, simply through your own actions or even sheer force of will, prevent your spouse from leaving you forever unless they choose not to. It's just as simple as that.

It's as much an argument over semantics as anything, but the mindset that goes along with toMAto is so vastly different from the one that goes along with toMAHto, that I think it's worth pointing out. If you believe you can, all by yourself, save your marriage, you are likely to get bogged down in all the nonsense of "should I say this?", "how should I handle that?", "should I smile, wink, nod, ignore, wince, grin, or whistle?", "do I buy her a gift or not?", "should I look sexy or plain?", "should I tell him/her I'm going out?", "should I text, e-mail, twitter, or phone?", yada, yada, yada. It's pointless.

However, if you believe that you can't save it yourself, but that you can keep from killing it, you're more likely to focus on things like, "how can I keep from allowing my knee-jerk negative reactions to damage the situation?", "is s/he needing more space and how can I do that without appearing to bail out?", "if I was controlling before, how can I be better at knowing where to draw the line between what I legitimately need and what I can really let go?".

Again, it's splitting hairs, but I hope the person asking this question can see how changing the perspective can result in behaviors that are more constructive and less obsessive.


OK, so a lot has transpired since I checked in on you last week. I could go through several parts individually, but I'm sensing a pattern so let me cut to the highlights.

1. You are way too invested in what she's thinking, how she sees you, etc. Stop. Read the section in DR about going dark...it's where you are right now (or at least where you should get to). If there were ever a case for the LRT, this is it. Of course, you can't go completely dark because of D6, but you're barely tapping sunset on the shoulder and you should be thinking more like the Tonight Show. Besides, there's no way you can figure out what she's thinking so everything is just guess or conjecture. Those form a poor basis for making decisions.

2. This is kind of more of #1, but you need to stop interjecting yourself into the conversation. Before you communicate, think of old Joe Friday..."Just the facts, ma'am." Leave out the not-very-cute, half funny, half desperate, half I'm-fishing-for-you-to-say-something-nice stuff like the "You don't need anyone evil on the trip" (at best it's pointless, at worst is counter-productive ). Leave out the defensive I'm-not-that-way stuff (she's not listening anyway). Leave out the if-I-just-explain-how-crazy-this-is-she'll-get-it stuff too (most women simply don't seem to be wired for that...'course that having been said, I can't really say what they are wired for either ).

3. Let go a bit. OK, so the tyke doesn't have a coat. Before you get "irked", wait for an actual problem, not the vague threat of one. You're reacting to simply the possibility of a problem that poses no serious risk anyway. Wait until she's actually sick...then have a conversation about how to avoid it next time. A cold isn't going to kill her (no...I'm not advocating for such as laissez-fair attitude if she were being exposed to a greater risk like Ebola). You're not going to be able to protect her from everything forever...might as well start getting a tiny bit of practice in now.

All-in-all, you seem to be getting good advice from others. Listen up.

Peace to you.