The thing is ALJ, what he uses the money for that he borrows doens't matter...
Sure, he needs to pay a bill... Be honest here and tell me this :
Do you think he hasn't spent a SINGLE DIME on OW... hasn't bought her ANY GIFTS at ALL?
Every dime he puts into her, is a dime he COULD have put into his kids instead... its selfish.
Now, I am not a tyrant here. I think everyone should have a life, but there is SOME spending that's ok and there is some that is NOT.
If I put 200 bucks into buying a new guitar that's on sale instead of putting it into my hosuehold, that may be forgivable - assuming I dno't have three hundred guitars arlready - but putting money into buying gifts or dinners for another woman is paying money to DAMAGE your marriage outright.
Maybe your H is in the clear, mabye he is not putting any money into OW, but I suspect he has.
If that is the case, you need to cut him off... sounds like you like the idea anyways.
Half his unemployement goes to you?
Hmmmmm...
But YOu don't know how much he's making down there right? Is tehre any possibility that he's making MORE that you don't know about?
And yes line about taking three jobs to provide ofr his kids is bullcrap... its just a LINE
Why do I say this?
He's cheating on you, he's abandoned you, he's walked out and left YOU to deal with everything while he's off playing and offers NO commitment to coming back.
Yes, kids need more than money, but I think he KNOWS that... When he talks about taking three jobs I would call him on it
HUSBAND : I love my kids. I will take three jobs if I have to to support my kids. I would do anything for my kids.
ALJ : OK, so how about you come HOME to LIVE with them then?
HUSABND : No can do, I am enjoying the care-free bachelor life here.
------------
So, you see, if you PRESS the claim, he's just going to backpeddal on it. He just is trying to overcompensate in my opinion. He KNOWS he's doing damage and is a bad father... So he makes these wild claims about being a great provider to make HIMSELF feel less guilty.
Its just a line.
If you Do talk to him and you DO hear that line.. CALL him on it.. "You woudl do anything eh? Then come back HOME."
"Well Husband, I can't remember the last time your daugthers asked where's dad's support cheque... they want to know where YOU are... not where your MONEY is..."
But this guy needs to grow up a bit, so protect yourself, your kids, and your finances for now... I suspect he will come crawling back eventually and you will haev some choices to make.
You, AND three kids.. thats FIVE mouths to feed including him
I hope YOU are getting at LEAST 4/5ths of the total income that is coming into your home... if he's taking more than 20% then he's screwing you over in my opinion... YOu are donig ALL the child care and getting paid zero for it...
You're right Allen. I do recall when H first told me about him and OW, he talked about how he has a good time with her when they go to the movies and out to eat together. So he has spent money on her I am sure. We both received buydown monies from our previous jobs and we cashed out our 401k's. So who knows what H has done for this girl. He probably paid for her to move down south with him, among other things plus this was the money that he was living off of and financing his businesses with. Now that money is gone and it could have been used for our family.
I am definately going to use those phrases when H talks about getting 2 jobs to take care of his kids. I should have been stressing that to begin with. I just can never think of the right comebacks to say to H when he tries to feed me these lame lines. It probably stems from my bad habit of not speaking up for myself when H is doing something unfair to me. Plus my self-esteem was pretty low but I am working on that. I also figured out that H is taking about 25% of the total income coming into my home.
I am thinking that H thought that he was going to move away, start a business or two, get rich, live the life of a bachelor, have OW, send big support checks and material things back to me and kids, eventually file for divorce from me once he was set financially and live happily ever after with his "true love" once he finds her. I am just letting my mind run away and projecting things. I could be wrong. I do know for a fact that H needs to grow up and stop thinking about himself when it comes to his family. I just don't know. Sometimes, I wonder why I want to save my marriage. Love and my kids are what is keeping me from giving up.
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
Well, you are seeing your H at his worst right now, he CAN change... you have to remember that.
But, UNTIL you see strong indications of that, you can't enable him any further or your family loses out.
If you look at it this way, he is taking 25% of the income. OK, if he was there WITH you, that's 25% MORE that could be going into SAVINGS.. instead, he wants to live ELSEWHERE and that's COSTING your family that 25%...
This is the price of his stubborn independence 25% each month.
Puppy points this out often.. Infidelity does damage emotionally, but it also does damage financially.
You CUOLD do the math and find out exactly what this affair has cost the family financially.
Roughly 25% * 12 months give or take yes?
I know this was supposed to be an investment, and ALL of that ws supposed to come BACK into the family with interest eventually, but you need to point this out to him
Mr ALJ you have spent x amount of money living independently over the last year. That money COULD have been investing into our chidlren instead. This is the price of your stubborness and your cheating.. it is HURTING our children. So don't give me this Bull$&$T about you working three jobs to supoprt them.. right now you are COSTING them x a month... with totals y each YEAR.
Don't worry about not knowing what to say, we all get caught. There is just so much emotion running around during the exchange we are lucky to find any words let alone something useful.
Its a lot easier to WRITE a reply to an email than to negotiate on the phone. This is why I reccomend to mb28 and 4luv here on this forum to try to contact via email instead of a phone call or text message (which is more often sent real time instead of somtime later after reflection)
And third parties like these forum members can futher add to the reflection since they have additional perspectives and objectivity to offer.
I am NOT saying what we say is RIGHT, but it is often food for some thought.
How long do you invest in something before you decide its time to change strategies? I am not talking about divorce, I DO mean that he expects your family to deal with this 25% cost of him being this "lone wolf" so to speak while if he were here at home with you that 25% can go into the family to pay debt or whatever...
My co worker here at work tried to talk his wife into letting him buy a condo in town since his work is an hours drive away. He said he wanted some place to take his friends for lunch and to hang out after work.
Well, she told him if he can find the $$ to cover that then he could use that $$ to fund their kids college instead.
Needless to say he has no condo right now. lol
But the point is the same. If he wants to do something discooperative that puts a strain on finances how long do you allow that? He's HOPING it will pan out but ...
A YEAR and nothing to show for it other than an lies and cheating?
Bear in mind, if he LEAVES, I don't know how much you would get for supoprt, but you and three kids is a LOT on his plate.
YOu may want to talk to a lawyer to find out what your financial position is on what you could feasible get from a support agreement... you may find 75% staying in your home is better than the say 50% you may get after a divorce, I have no idea, I am not a lawyer.
My MAIN point is that if he was HOME, that would be that much more money in your pocket. So when he talks big about how important it is to support them.. you tell him he's COSTING his girls 25% a month for him to play this wayward spouse game for the last year and change.
My H drove up to visit the kids on April 1st and he left to go back home this morning. He stayed with us and slept on the couch or on the floor like he usually does as I don't have a spare room. When he got here, the kids were overjoyed to see him. He greeted me with a one-handed hug, like he did not want want to touch me at all.
For the most part, H and I really had no communication at all with each other(a major problem in our marriage to begin with) and I was more mad than anything during his entire stay. I did not take my anger out on him. I showed it by the way of silence. Every time I wanted to laugh at something he would say or talk to him, I would think about him and the OW. During the first couple of days H treated me like he was doing me a favor by talking to me, like I am the one who is in the wrong and is doing the cheating. Every time his phone made a noise indicating that he had received a text message, I automatically assumed it was the OW. I guess I have a problem with acting like everything is okay with us by having a normal conversation with him. I guess he feels the same way.
On Friday, we barely saw each other. The kids and I went shopping for Easter and when we got back, H was gone to visit friends. Later that night the kids and I went to Good Friday church services and when we returned, H was asleep. Saturday was the worst day. I left that morning to finish up some shopping and the kids stayed with H. I told H that I would not be gone long but unexpectantly, I was gone for 4 hours. When I got back, H was mad because I had said that I was not going to be gone long and he was supposed to be going to his sisters for a BBQ with the kids. I asked him why he did not tell me this as I would have returned sooner and he said that he tried to call me but I did not answer(my phone doesnt receive signals in certain stores) plus I said that I would not be gone long. Well, my feelings were hurt and I held back tears while we got the kids ready to go with him to the BBQ. After he and the kids were in his car, ready to go, he calls me and asks if I am going. I reluctantly agreed.
At the BBQ, H really didn't talk to me unless it had something to do with the kids. At the end of the night, I called H and blew up at him because he had left the BBQ to take his brother somewhere and did not let me know he was gone. It had been 2 hours that he had been gone and I called him and yelled at him, basically asking him would it have killed him to tell me that he was gone because I did not know. Yelling and arguing at him is not in my nature and I rarely do it. He did not have anything to say other than that his sister knew where he was but when he got back, he tried talking to me by asking me if I was ready to go or if I had eaten anything, etc. His demeanor changed.
Sunday came and we barely saw each other except for in the morning before the kids and I went to church. After church, the kids and I went to see my MIL. Our conversation soon turned to me and H. I told her how things were going between H and I and she said that every time H comes to visit, she sees a change in me. Not a good one either. She then said that maybe H should not stay at my house when he comes to visit and if he wants to see the kids then he is more than welcome to stay at her house and have the kids visit him there. She thinks this might wake H up to the damage that he is doing to us. Whatever I decide to do, MIL says she supports me in it. I just don't know. I am thinking that that arrangement will upset the kids as they don't see him a lot. I would like to know what everyone thinks.
As it came closer to the time for H to leave for home, I saw glimpses of the old H. He started loosening up and talking to me about mundane things but I could still tell that he was uncomfortable around me. When it came time for H to leave, it was 4am and he came upstairs to tell me he was leaving and not to get up because he would turn the lock on the door. I got up anyways and he gave me another one handed hug. He said he will call me when he got in ( I doubt it if he calls, he usually sends me a "I made it back" text) I did start to cry a little and he left. I don't know if I acted appropriately during his visit. Are you still supposed to act upbeat and happy in front of the WAS, even if there is OP in the picture?
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
I honeslty don't think he should be around his children at ALL until he ENDS his AFFAIR.. he is NOT a good example for his children.. he just teaches them to treat women like dirt.. is that the thing you want them learning?
I am so upset I don't even have the emotional stability to go through this post and point out all the manipulative hurtful things he did.
ALJ you really need to LOOK at what he's DOING. And TALKING to this man is NOT going to HELP YOU. He manipulates conversations :
1. You went out shopping and left him to watch his OWN CHILDREN for FOUR MEASLY HOURS and how many HOURS do YOU watch them each WEEK? And he has the NERVE to COMPLAIN that YOU were LATE? He is MOUNTING another WOMAN and HE attacks YOU for being NEGLIGENT and unavailable?
2. THEN you go to a bbq and HE pulls an even WORSE stunt than you by leaving with NO NOTICE at ALL... and you speak up and he just excuses himself AGAIN?
3. Your MIL is deluded if she thinks YOU should be the one SHUT OUT when HE comes up there. HE is the one that should be ostracized NOT YOU. Man, I have a lot more I want to say, but I fear it won't be heard anyhow...
I am listening to what you have to say. I will admit it is hard and that the truth hurts. I don't know what you mean when you say MIL is deluded when she suggested that I not let my H stay at my house because she feels that he is having his cake and eating it too? I think she was just looking out for me by saying that if I didn't want H staying at my house, he could stay at her house and the kids could visit him there. I would not be involved when he sees the kids. She thinks it would be better for me if I don't talk to him at all. I even told her about the protection phase letter and she said it sounded like a good idea and she supported me if I send it to him because he deserves everything coming to him for walking away from us. How is she shutting me out? Maybe you misunderstood the way that I wrote that part.
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
I don't know what you mean when you say MIL is deluded when she suggested that I not let my H stay at my house because she feels that he is having his cake and eating it too? I think she was just looking out for me by saying that if I didn't want H staying at my house, he could stay at her house and the kids could visit him there. I would not be involved when he sees the kids. She thinks it would be better for me if I don't talk to him at all. I even told her about the protection phase letter and she said it sounded like a good idea and she supported me if I send it to him because he deserves everything coming to him for walking away from us. How is she shutting me out? Maybe you misunderstood the way that I wrote that part.
It all depends on how it is presented to your husband.
If his mother presents it like "you two cant get along - you and I can play with the kids here safely" it isn't the right idea... it turns YOU into the problem because MIL and her son are there with his kids...
Affairs aren't HIM not getting along with YOU, its about HIM being DESTRUCTIVE towaords his WHOLE FAMILY and NOT OWNING it. If this infidelity is just viewed by her as a "spat" or dispute between the TWO of you, she's NOT being helpful at all. Infidelity affects the ENTIRE FAMILY.
If MIL tells him outright she will not support his behaviour and that he is entitled to a 60 min visit with them and then he has to LEAVE and she cares not where he goes THEN she has the right idea... its all in how it is delivered to H
I am noticing that In laws will SAY they support you, but a trend here in many cases is to have the in laws DO NOTHING but enable the behaviour....
If MIL is telling YOu she is supoprtive, but saying zero to her son, she's not being all that supoprtive.
I dunno... I realize its hard when its your husband, but HE is OPENING challenging your dignity here when he cheats on you.. and he shows up and helps with his OWN CHILDREN for four measly hours and he attacks YOU?
Do you SEE the IRONY there? Its' bad enough you stomach his passive aggressive affair.. he knows its hurting you but he keeps doing it.. that's passive aggressive behaviour... he shows up in person and verbally attacks you too?
I just am in shock... I'll get over it and come up with something more constructive eventually.
I now see what you mean Allen. I didn't think about it that way. MIL has said that H is wrong for doing what he is doing but I do not know what she is saying to him per se. I want to tell her to let H know, when she talks to him, how much he is hurting his family but for some reason I think she is afraid to speak out. Now don't get me wrong, she has told me that she has talked to her son about what is going on but I don't think she has taken a hard stance against the infidelity.
After H left yesterday morning, he sent me a text, telling me where he left his W2's in my house so I know where they are because I need them. I did not answer. Then later on last nite, he sent me a text telling me that he made it home, like he always does. I didn't answer. I usually text back "ok" but I didn't this time. H would usually inquire if I got his "I made it back" text if I don't respond within the hour that he sends it but this time he has texted nothing to me about not responding to it. In my opinion, H knows he is hurting me (him hearing me cry yesterday morning as he was leaving) and he doesn't know how to deal with it. The answer is simple. Stop the affair and come home. He does not want to do that. He has moved to another state that I guess he likes, he has OW with him, and he probably thinks he is in too deep to get out.
To tell you the truth, I don't even know what is going on with him and the OW. I have never met her and I do not speak about her. I am guessing that they are still together but even if they are not, H is probably looking for someone else. This bachelor life is new to H and I think he is enjoying it but it is not right. Their so called business venture went nowhere from what I know. I have not viewed their website since I saw it for the first time. From looking at H facebook statuses occasionally, he does not promote it anymore. This distance between us is working in H's favor.
As for the passive aggressive behavior, I think it has always been this way in our marriage. I just never spoke up about it because my feelings are easily hurt. H did what he wanted and we were not there for each other. I felt that he had a right because I wanted to compensate for the problems that we were having in the marriage. This is a big mess and some days I just want to give up. I have to work on finding a therapist for me. I was seeing a marriage counselor but what good is that when I am going by myself? I don't know if there is a difference between a counselor and a therapist.
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
I have to work on finding a therapist for me. I was seeing a marriage counselor but what good is that when I am going by myself? I don't know if there is a difference between a counselor and a therapist.
I will work backwards here. Answer the last questions first.
Taken from p 131 of DR :
Marital therapy requires very different skills than doing individual therapy. Individual therapists usually help people identify and process feelings. They assist them in achieving personal goals. "how do you feel about that" is their mantra.
Couples therapists on the other hand, need to be skilled in helping people overcome the differences that naturally occur when two people live under the same roof. They need to know what makes a marriage tick. A therapist can be very skilled as an individual therapist and be clueless about helping couples change.
MWD says in her book that most of the time she only at first sees the ONE partner. This is very common.
Marriage counselling gives you someone to talk to. A safe and constructive outlet.. a good friend to talk to about your marriage. 4luv is seeing one now and she is in a position very similar to yours - husband shows up rarely, moved into his own "bachelor pad", seeing OW, etc. She may be able to better give you some insight as to why it might be worth pursuing.
But more to the point, if you go, your H may actually be willing to go. If he refuses, its all the more reason for your support team to admonish him for lack of effort.
Don't wait til he SAYS he WANTS to GO, to start looking.. it can take months to find a good MT.
And even if your H doens't go, YOU stand a chance to learn a LOT. This forum is constructive, so are books, but having a good FT to talk to in person regularly can offer an additional dimension to your progress.
